# Orthodox Shitheads Defy Law In Order To Endanger Children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606 "2012-09-04T02:35:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/361 "2014-08-18T00:19:54Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Because you show not the slightest bit of willingness to understand that “stop sucking baby dicks” is a rhetorical device and is not meant in any way as an accusation of pedophelia. I disagree. Exhibit A: > [@AnaMen](#): > > How anyone think sucking baby dicks is a privilege worth preserving is beyond me. This kind of “reasoning” is NAMBLA all the way. If I hired a Catholic priest to suck my kid’s dick, would you defend that too? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/362 "2014-08-18T00:24:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > We would not ban a doctor from performing hernia checks by holding testicles and eliciting a cough, even though there are undoubtedly pedophile doctors in the land. I’m fairly sure a young boy can’t get a VD from having his balls felt, even by a pedophile. So pedophilia aside I’ll ask once again - is the dick sucking religiously mandated or is it just tradition? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/363 "2014-08-18T00:36:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > We would not ban a doctor from performing hernia checks by holding testicles and eliciting a cough, even though there are undoubtedly pedophile doctors in the land. Which is why I said “considering that there is no good medical reason for it”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/364 "2014-08-18T00:43:08Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > I agree with you on this position. > > That said I’m still wondering if the practice can be updated to avoid potential injury. > > Is there some religious dogma that specifically requires the use of the mouth as opposed to a sanitary anti-bacterial wipe? So far as I can tell, the answer is: it depends on the religious tradition. In the early 1840s, the famous rabbi Moses Sofer (known in Orthodox commentary circles as the _Chasam Sofer_ responded to an inquiry about the practice with an opinion that the Gemara (a section of the Talmud that contains analysis and binding decisions from rabbis through history) does not specifically require that _metzitzah_ be done orally. In response, many other distinguished rabbis of the time, including the _Tiferes Yisroel, Maharam Schick,_ and _Aruch L’ner_ authored defenses of the practice. The purpose of the practice is to create suction to draw blood away from the wound. Gauze is held by some commentators to be workable, although probably not pre-moistened anti-bacterial gauze, since it doesn’t create much suction. But sterile gauze, or a glass pipette, have been proposed as alternatives that would create the requisite drawing away of blood and maintain a sterile surface. Many commentators approve of these variances – many others do not. The debate hinges on whether the practice is an inherent part of the ritual, in which case it cannot be changed, or if it’s there as the best method of creating suction, in which case it can be modified as we can provide nearly-equal suction with no risk of disease with a glass pipette. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/365 "2014-08-18T00:44:11Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Which is why I said “considering that there is no good medical reason for it”. But there’s a good religious reason for it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/366 "2014-08-18T00:46:58Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > I’m fairly sure a young boy can’t get a VD from having his balls felt, even by a pedophile. > > So pedophilia aside I’ll ask once again - is the dick sucking religiously mandated or is it just tradition? According to the people that are doing it, it’s tradition that has the force of law. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/367 "2014-08-18T00:57:41Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > So pedophilia aside I’ll ask once again - is the dick sucking religiously mandated or is it just tradition? We’re dealing with a small, extremely old-fashioned group, for whom a long standing tradition _is_ a religious mandate. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/368 "2014-08-18T01:04:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s factual to describe them as “fellaters?” > > No, it’s not. It’s deceptive. It’s inaccurate. > > [Cite.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fellatio) > > Well? Or you could keep reading your cited definition: fel·la·tio noun \fə-ˈlā-shē-ˌō, fe- : the act of stimulating a man’s penis with the mouth for sexual pleasure Full Definition of FELLATIO : oral stimulation of the penis See fellatio defined for English-language learners » Note how whatever is going through the dicksucker’s mind is not addressed. But have it your way – I’ll call them dicksuckers, as they are inarguably sucking dicks. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/369 "2014-08-18T01:07:21Z")
So just to be clear, the practice in question is religious doctrine, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/370 "2014-08-18T01:10:17Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Or you could keep reading your cited definition: > > fel·la·tio noun \f-l-sh-, fe-\ > > : the act of stimulating a man’s penis with the mouth for sexual pleasure > > Full Definition of FELLATIO > > : oral stimulation of the penis > > See fellatio defined for English-language learners » > > Note how whatever is going through the dicksucker’s mind is not addressed. But have it your way – I’ll call them dicksuckers, as they are inarguably sucking dicks. Even then your terms are deceptive, since “stimulation” is not a fair description of a public, brief application of oral suction on the wound just created by cutting the foreskin. Nor is dicksucker a fair description, because it intentionally evokes an image very different from the reality. Your argument depends upon your reader misconstruing your words. I assume you agree I could not announce that I slept with you and then defend myself by pointing out we were asleep in different cities at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/371 "2014-08-18T01:12:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I disagree. Exhibit A: I certainly don’t mean it as a rhetorical device. I literally mean they should stop sucking baby dicks, no matter their excuses, reasons, or motivations, with the possible exception of snakebite situations, but from what I’ve read, this is no longer the medically advised course of action even in that unlikely event. But I am not speaking for anyone else. Many people here seem to think sucking baby dicks is fine and dandy as long as parents are advised of the health risks, so don’t go citing me as a representative of that opinion to use against those that hold it. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/372 "2014-08-18T01:18:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Even then your terms are deceptive, since “stimulation” is not a fair description of a public, brief application of oral suction on the wound just created by cutting the foreskin. > > Nor is dicksucker a fair description, because it intentionally evokes an image very different from the reality. Your argument depends upon your reader misconstruing your words. > > I assume you agree I could not announce that I slept with you and then defend myself by pointing out we were asleep in different cities at the same time. Mouth is placed on bleeding baby dick; blood is slurped up via mouth suction. Sure sounds like the reality is that a dick is being sucked. Doing it in front of people does not improve the situation. If you slept “with” me, but we were in different cities, you weren’t with me, so that is not a description of reality. I still want to know how you feel about me hiring a Catholic priest to put his mouth on my baby’s penis, whatever you want to call it. I’ll invite a roomful of people to observe the spectacle if that helps. Are you going to defend my right to do this or not? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/373 "2014-08-18T01:52:29Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Mouth is placed on bleeding baby dick; blood is slurped up via mouth suction. Sure sounds like the reality is that a dick is being sucked. Doing it in front of people does not improve the situation. > If you slept “with” me, but we were in different cities, you weren’t with me, so that is not a description of reality. > I still want to know how you feel about me hiring a Catholic priest to put his mouth on my baby’s penis, whatever you want to call it. I’ll invite a roomful of people to observe the spectacle if that helps. Are you going to defend my right to do this or not? No, because there is no Catholic religious reason to do such a thing. “With” can refer to a close association in time: _With the Ebola virus a danger, everyone around the world is taking precautions._ So you slept with me, technically. Should I describe it thusly? Because, technically, it’s true – we slept at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/374 "2014-08-18T01:54:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Because you show not the slightest bit of willingness to understand that “stop sucking baby dicks” is a rhetorical device and is not meant in any way as an accusation of pedophelia. Exhibit B: > [@AnaMen](#): > > I certainly don’t mean it as a rhetorical device. Well? ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/375 "2014-08-18T02:36:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, because there is no Catholic religious reason to do such a thing. > > “With” can refer to a close association in time: _With the Ebola virus a danger, everyone around the world is taking precautions._ > > So you slept with me, technically. Should I describe it thusly? Because, technically, it’s true – we slept at the same time. I’m not Catholic, and “religious reason” is an oxymoron. Maybe it’s just something I think some god wants me to make happen. Once upon a time, someone was the first mohel to do it, so don’t claim tradition was a factor then. That usage of “with” still doesn’t have you sleeping with me and results in a nonsensical sentence, but you’re right, herpes is not the only disease that these infants may die from after the mouth of the possibly diseased adult man is wrapped religiously around the infant’s bleeding genitalia. Ebola could surely be transferred in this manner, as could countless other potentially fatal conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/376 "2014-08-18T02:39:31Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > I’m not Catholic, and “religious reason” is an oxymoron. In your opinion. But you are aware that the law views things a bit differently, right? ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/377 "2014-08-18T02:46:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Exhibit B: > > Well? Don’t group me with people that think the baby dick sucking is problematic only if parents are not properly warned of the danger or that it should be avoided only to eliminate risk of disease. I am not Exhibits A, B, or any other letters that support tolerance for baby dick sucking. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/378 "2014-08-18T02:54:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In your opinion. > > But you are aware that the law views things a bit differently, right? Sometimes two laws exist that contradict each other. Like “don’t suck babies’ dicks” is a law, but then there may be some weird loophole someone managed to “interpret” that lets some people suck some baby’s dicks anyway. If a new law is passed that says we can all fist infants for Jesus, I’m still going to judge people that do it and hope to stop them and change the law. Sucking baby dicks is not merely ethically questionable. It’s not a victimless crime that I think is silly, but to each his own. It’s depraved and disgusting and people that do it or support it are, at best, confused. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/379 "2014-08-18T03:15:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > According to the people that are doing it, it’s tradition that has the force of law. Quite frankly - Who cares? Given the very real, demonstrated and proven health risks, why should anyone be allowed to suck on an open wound after cosmetic surgery? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/380 "2014-08-18T03:18:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I love the SDMB, the home of fighting ignorance (as long as such ignorance does not assist our preferred policy positions). > > Why am I the only person in this thread defending this practice against accusations of pedophilia? Well, I’ll join you. To portray it as pedophilia is just inane. It serves no purpose whatsoever. It is not, and should not, be seen as in any way sexual. On the other hand, stupid, moronic, wrong, uneccessary, abusive, dangerous are all words that spring to mind - no to mention that I would never give such a practice a religious exemption [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606.md?page=20)