# Orthodox Shitheads Defy Law In Order To Endanger Children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606 "2012-09-04T02:35:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/101 "2012-09-04T23:27:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is there a G-d? > > Did He give the Law to Moses? Quite a number of Jews have no problem believing in the revealed Torah without cottoning to the worst interpretive excesses of the Haredim. They pick and choose. If they didn’t suffer at least as much hermeneutic stress as the rest of us, they wouldn’t send their males to Torah school for life. Are you really suggesting it’s not possible to be a Jew without endorsing this garbage? Jews don’t have a central authority. We don’t have organizationally sanctioned dogma. Everything is contested, it has been for millennia, and will be for as long as Jews are still here. What are you trying to achieve with this line of inquiry? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/102 "2012-09-04T23:29:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I am attacking the juvenile sniggering, and I see now that the paper towel tube has made an appearance, we’re in sight of the lowest rung of the ladder here. Well congrats to you then, because you led the way down here. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/103 "2012-09-04T23:35:32Z")
Point 1: I am a Jew. Point 2: Ultra Orthodox Jews tend to be jerks. Point 3: There should definitely be a law protecting these kids from herpes if the science ends up proving that there’s a serious risk from the act. Point 4: The various posts stopping _juuuuuuuust this side_ of outright calling these mohels out as paedophiles and then blinking all wide-eyed and going “What? Show me where I explicitly wrote those exact words!” are pretty childish, but I guess I get that for most people in this thread, this isn’t really about this precise _part of the bris_ but more about painting another layer on the “Jewish people are monsters for circumcising their kids” argument. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/104 "2012-09-04T23:45:50Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Point 1: I am a Jew. > Point 2: Ultra Orthodox Jews tend to be jerks. > Point 3: There should definitely be a law protecting these kids from herpes if the science ends up proving that there’s a serious risk from the act. > Point 4: The various posts stopping _juuuuuuuust this side_ of outright calling these mohels out as paedophiles and then blinking all wide-eyed and going “What? Show me where I explicitly wrote those exact words!” are pretty childish, but I guess I get that for most people in this thread, this isn’t really about this precise _part of the bris_ but more about painting another layer on the “Jewish people are monsters for circumcising their kids” argument. Point 4 is more like many Jews like myself sick and fucking tired of stupid ultra orthodox practices and people who defend them. Circumcision has some medical benefits and can be justified on those grounds. The sucking blood from a baby’s penis does not. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/105 "2012-09-04T23:57:00Z")
Eh, I find it hard to get worked up over. All the hand-wringing about sucking baby dicks reminds me of the overdone sitcom gag where one character gets a snakebite on his ass and begs the other character to suck it out, and then there’s ten minutes of “Suck it ou-! But it’s! And I’m not one of THOSE-! OHHHH DEAR!” It’s really fucking weird, but it’s harmless. Now if we’re going to talk about UO Jews who throw rocks at people on the sabbath? I’m all over that pitting. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/106 "2012-09-05T00:02:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > It’s really fucking weird, but it’s harmless. Two children are dead and two have irreversible brain damage. So tell me… did _your_ mohel have a cold sore the day he cut you? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/107 "2012-09-05T00:04:53Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Two children are dead and two have irreversible brain damage. > > So tell me… did _your_ mohel have a cold sore the day he cut you? Read my point 3 above. If the science pans out, then it’s clearly not harmless. I’m referring more specifically to the whole “sucking baby dick” rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/108 "2012-09-05T00:08:14Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > I don’t know about god. If you really knew anything about Judaism you’d know that most Jews believe that such a thing is unknowable and we should really concentrate on behaving decently during the here and now rather than worrying about the hereafter. No. I do not agree that most Jews believe that the answer to “Is there a G-d?” is unknowable. You are confusing this with question about the nature of G-d; most Jews agree that G-d is unknowable. Nor did I ask a thing about the hereafter, did I? > [@](#): > > You know. Decent human behavior as in not stoning women praying at the wailing wall, shielding pedophiles and calling eight year olds prostitutes. Something many of the smugly assholish Haredim and their ilk seem unable to do as of late. And I don’t defend any of those practices. This is a phenomenon I see a great deal at the SDMB, though. Because a person or a group is generally bad, it becomes acceptable to say anything, factual or not, about them. “I don’t think Idi Amin was tone-deaf.” “Bricker, how dare you defend Idi Amin?” “I just don’t think there’s any evidence he was tone–” “He murdered thousands? Bricker supports a murderer!” > [@](#): > > What other practices do you think are acceptable in the name of religion? Shielding Nazi war criminals as Catholic church officials did? Clitorectomy as some Muslims still practice? Tormenting little girls on their way to school as the Haredim did in Israel? > > Since you’re demanding we answer your questions you should answer ours. Ok. No, no, and no. Now, you tell me: is there any pedophilia involved in this story? And if there isn’t, why, on a board supposedly having some interest in eradicating ignorance is it acceptable to sniggeringly suggest there is? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/109 "2012-09-05T00:16:14Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Quite a number of Jews have no problem believing in the revealed Torah without cottoning to the worst interpretive excesses of the Haredim. They pick and choose. If they didn’t suffer at least as much hermeneutic stress as the rest of us, they wouldn’t send their males to Torah school for life. Are you really suggesting it’s not possible to be a Jew without endorsing this garbage? > > Jews don’t have a central authority. We don’t have organizationally sanctioned dogma. Everything is contested, it has been for millennia, and will be for as long as Jews are still here. What are you trying to achieve with this line of inquiry? Obviously I know all that. But if I am talking to someone who rejects even the existence of G-d, it’s a different situation than someone who says Rabbi Zecharias Frankel may have had a couple of good ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/110 "2012-09-05T00:22:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Read my point 3 above. If the science pans out, then it’s clearly not harmless. I’m referring more specifically to the whole “sucking baby dick” rhetoric. You’re not allowed to refer to that, apparently. They just get to do it. If you criticize it, you support beating women at the Wailing Wall. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/111 "2012-09-05T00:25:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. I do not agree that most Jews believe that the answer to “Is there a G-d?” is unknowable. You are confusing this with question about the nature of G-d; most Jews agree that G-d is unknowable. Nor did I ask a thing about the hereafter, did I? Are Catholics also prohibited from typing “God” now? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/112 "2012-09-05T00:31:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. I do not agree that most Jews believe that the answer to “Is there a G-d?” is unknowable. You are confusing this with question about the nature of G-d; most Jews agree that G-d is unknowable. Nor did I ask a thing about the hereafter, did I? > > And I don’t defend any of those practices. > > This is a phenomenon I see a great deal at the SDMB, though. Because a person or a group is generally bad, it becomes acceptable to say anything, factual or not, about them. > > “I don’t think Idi Amin was tone-deaf.” > > “Bricker, how dare you defend Idi Amin?” > > “I just don’t think there’s any evidence he was tone–” > > “He murdered thousands? Bricker supports a murderer!” > > Ok. No, no, and no. > > Now, you tell me: is there any pedophilia involved in this story? > > And if there isn’t, why, on a board supposedly having some interest in eradicating ignorance is it acceptable to sniggeringly suggest there is? There are a lot of Jews who aren’t entirely sure about the existence of god. It’s a perfectly reasonable stance. The attitude really often is that you’ll find out day so just chill and be a good person. It most certainly does tie into the hereafter question. But, as someone pointed out to you, there is no Jewish pope so there are often many answers to the same question. Again if you knew about Judaism (which you do not) you would know this. You are defending a stupid practice and have done so multiple times. These mohels are doing the same. Hence the sniggering. In the meantime could you answer my question about what other assinine religious practices you wish to defend? Clitorectomy? The Haredim and their shielding of pedophiles? I believe at one point you grotesquely defended the insane Catholic stance that a woman with an ectopic pregnancy should undergo surgery rather than have a methotrexate shot (because she’s not sacred but a fertilized egg that endangers her health most certainly is :rolleyes:) so nothing would surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/113 "2012-09-05T00:53:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Obviously I know all that. But if I am talking to someone who rejects even the existence of G-d, it’s a different situation than someone who says Rabbi Zecharias Frankel may have had a couple of good ideas. It’s not obvious. But more importantly, how is this a different situation? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/114 "2012-09-05T01:02:30Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Are Catholics also prohibited from typing “God” now? No. But in a discussion of Jewish practice, I try to avoid it, out of respect for the Jewish practice. Obviously this is of no concern to you. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/115 "2012-09-05T01:06:48Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > There are a lot of Jews who aren’t entirely sure about the existence of god. It’s a perfectly reasonable stance. The attitude really often is that you’ll find out day so just chill and be a good person. It most certainly does tie into the hereafter question. But, as someone pointed out to you, there is no Jewish pope so there are often many answers to the same question. Again if you knew about Judaism (which you do not) you would know this. If you can point to a single factual error I have made in discussing Judaism, please feel free. > [@](#): > > You are defending a stupid practice and have done so multiple times. These mohels are doing the same. Hence the sniggering. So sniggering about pedophilia is justified in response to a practice that’s stupid, even though it’s not related to pedophilia? > [@](#): > > In the meantime could you answer my question about what other assinine religious practices you wish to defend? Clitorectomy? The Haredim and their shielding of pedophiles? I believe at one point you grotesquely defended the insane Catholic stance that a woman with an ectopic pregnancy should undergo surgery rather than have a methotrexate shot (because she’s not sacred but a fertilized egg that endangers her health most certainly is :rolleyes:) so nothing would surprise me. I did answer your questions. You quoted my answers: no, no, and no. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/116 "2012-09-05T01:09:49Z")
Then WHY are you defending this? Why bother with this bullshit of your’s? > [@Bricker](#): > > Now, you tell me: is there any pedophilia involved in this story? > > And if there isn’t, why, on a board supposedly having some interest in eradicating ignorance is it acceptable to sniggeringly suggest there is? I don’t believe anyone was seriously, honestly saying these rabbis are pedophiles. Merely being sarcastic. Take your extreme literalism, rules lawyering, nitpicking thread-shitting and shove it straight up your ass where it belongs. The Dope is not a court of law, and I can’t be the only one who’s sick of your acting like Jack McCoy in every single thread. Judaism is not Catholicism, there’s no Pope, no _ex cathedra_, no I have spoken, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/117 "2012-09-05T01:15:44Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > . . . Take your extreme literalism, rules lawyering, nitpicking thread-shitting and shove it straight up your ass where it belongs. The Dope is not a court of law, and I can’t be the only one who’s sick of your acting like Jack McCoy in every single thread. . . . You aren’t, I agree, thank you for saying what needed saying, and I owe ya a Pepsi! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/118 "2012-09-05T01:20:28Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Then WHY are you defending this? Why bother with this bullshit of your’s? It’s good to be in a thread where lots of people agree with you, eh, Guin? My point is: > [@Bricker](#): > > I object to the OP’s presentment of the issue. > > There is absolutely a valid argument to be made for the law, and indeed for banning the practice. But no one – so far as I’m aware — seriously contends the opposition arises because of a need on the part of mohels to “keep sucking baby dicks,” a phrasing that darkly hints at motives starkly different from those that actually motivate the mohels in question. You may rage at their adherence to superstition over medical science if you wish; you pollute the discussion by salacious phrasing. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe anyone was seriously, honestly saying these rabbis are pedophiles. Merely being sarcastic. That’s not sarcasm, Guin. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/119 "2012-09-05T01:28:29Z")
Wait. Are they orthodox Jews that are also shitheads, or are they some just shitheads that are very observant and strict about it? ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/120 "2012-09-05T01:33:01Z")
Bricker, you’ve turned into a serious cock sucker in this thread. You just look like a douche. That’s all, you just look like a douche. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606.md?page=7)