# ORWELL: LOVE is HATE. What is a Love Group? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 12, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943 "2004-03-12T18:44:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Since1973](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Since1973](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Since1973)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/1 "2004-03-12T18:44:00Z")
Thought Crimes. Define your Love group and debate whether emotions such as Hate should be outlawed and banned from the Human life. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/2 "2004-03-12T18:50:30Z")
What is with you people? Is the whole exercise of presenting coherent arguments too taxing or something? ---
**Author:** ![Since1973](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Since1973](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Since1973)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/3 "2004-03-12T19:01:40Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > What is with you people? Is the whole exercise of presenting coherent arguments too taxing or something? Right off the bat you hate. This is fascinating to study. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/4 "2004-03-12T19:01:53Z")
And I thought the thread might make sense because the title started with a reference to Orwell. ☹ OK, I give up - what IS a “Love Group”? ---
**Author:** ![Grant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a5b964/32.png) [@Grant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grant)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/5 "2004-03-12T19:02:33Z")
Yeah yeah just get to your point if you have one. Just because you can get us to agree with some small vague point like hate is a valid emotion doesn’t mean you can thereby validate your entire POV. Been done a thousand times. Doesn’t make it any more logically sound. ---
**Author:** ![Since1973](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Since1973](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Since1973)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/6 "2004-03-12T19:04:42Z")
> [@Celyn](#): > > And I thought the thread might make sense because the title started with a reference to Orwell. ☹ > > OK, I give up - what IS a “Love Group”? Yeah…get to your point ! If a group loves their own race, does that make them hate all the other races? ---
**Author:** ![Since1973](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Since1973](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Since1973)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/7 "2004-03-12T19:12:13Z")
> [@Grant](#): > > Yeah yeah just get to your point if you have one. Just because you can get us to agree with some small vague point like hate is a valid emotion doesn’t mean you can thereby validate your entire POV. Been done a thousand times. Doesn’t make it any more logically sound. Yeah, yeah… man. Just because some small vague emotion doesnt’ point validate your VOP. Yeah… Why don’t you address the topic. Define a Love Group. Is that asking too much? Then lets debate it. ~ ---
**Author:** ![Grant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a5b964/32.png) [@Grant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grant)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/8 "2004-03-12T19:15:54Z")
I’m here. You used the term. You define it. ---
**Author:** ![Since1973](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Since1973](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Since1973)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/9 "2004-03-12T19:20:25Z")
> [@Grant](#): > > I’m here. You used the term. You define it. A Love Group is a group of people who Love themselves. They do not hate anybody else. They just love the Country they founded and want to make it better. That’s a Love group. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/10 "2004-03-12T19:24:22Z")
> [@Celyn](#): > > And I thought the thread might make sense because the title started with a reference to Orwell. ☹ > > OK, I give up - what IS a “Love Group”? Back in college it was me, my girl and four others. _sigh_ I need to be alone for a minute. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/11 "2004-03-12T19:28:52Z")
> [@Since1973](#): > > Right off the bat you hate. This is fascinating to study. In case you’re taking notes put me down for exasperation at willful ignorance. Now for your benefit > [@Wikipedia entry “Argument“](#): > > An argument is an attempt to provide a compelling, rigorous demonstration of the truth of a conclusion, based on the truth of any number of premises. If the argument is valid, the premises together entail or imply the conclusion. The ways in which arguments go wrong fall into certain patterns, called logical fallacies, meaning false notation of logic. Note the whole thesis, assumptions, factual statements and finally conclusions. Randomly waving you hands in the air and wailing about the nasty rules of rhetoric wont get you very far here I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Since1973](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Since1973](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Since1973)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/12 "2004-03-12T19:31:36Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Back in college it was me, my girl and four others. > > _sigh_ > > I need to be alone for a minute. So with a Blissfull sigh…Democracy disappears in the Jewish dark night. SOUNDS GOOD TO ME! Awake! John ---
**Author:** ![Since1973](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Since1973](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Since1973)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/13 "2004-03-12T19:34:25Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > In case you’re taking notes put me down for exasperation at willful ignorance. > > Now for your benefit > > Note the whole thesis, assumptions, factual statements and finally conclusions. Randomly waving you hands in the air and wailing about the nasty rules of rhetoric wont get you very far here I’m afraid. Validation, I remind you, is reliant upon fact, and fact is reliant upon belief for Science proves yesterdays facts as fallacy as well. ---
**Author:** ![Since1973](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Since1973](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Since1973)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/14 "2004-03-12T19:37:19Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > In case you’re taking notes put me down for exasperation at willful ignorance. > > Now for your benefit > > Note the whole thesis, assumptions, factual statements and finally conclusions. Randomly waving you hands in the air and wailing about the nasty rules of rhetoric wont get you very far here I’m afraid. I have defined a Love Group. Now you define a Love Group and lets let the Argument begin. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/15 "2004-03-12T19:42:26Z")
Well since you threw out the White make the US great bit… “Whites” intentionally established the United States of America “Whites” exclusively made the USA great. Conclusion the removal/diminishment of “Whites” from the USA will remove the source of the USAs greatness. Since the definition of “what “White” is”, and what a ““White race” eligible immigrant is” has changed through time the idea that once vilified “White” races such as the Italians, Germans, Irish and Poles may now be counted amongst those that made the USA great makes your second point laughable. It also knocks down the conclusion. You defined a Love Group as a group that love themselves. Kudos. Now should that group collectively hate others, not of themselves, they could be a considered a Hate group. Notice how its not an either or proposition? ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/16 "2004-03-12T19:46:37Z")
Maybe I’m just exceedingly thick, but I have no idea where the hell the OP is going with this… ---
**Author:** ![Since1973](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Since1973](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Since1973)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/17 "2004-03-12T19:50:18Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Well since you threw out the White make the US great bit… > > “Whites” intentionally established the United States of America > “Whites” exclusively made the USA great. > > Conclusion the removal/diminishment of “Whites” from the USA will remove the source of the USAs greatness. > > Since the definition of “what “White” is”, and what a ““White race” eligible immigrant is” has changed through time the idea that once vilified “White” races such as the Italians, Germans, Irish and Poles may now be counted amongst those that made the USA great makes your second point laughable. It also knocks down the conclusion. > > You defined a Love Group as a group that love themselves. Kudos. Now should that group collectively hate others, not of themselves, they could be a considered a Hate group. Notice how its not an either or proposition? How are people who love themselves considered having hate towards others? Also you wanted to interject race into this. So it’s going to get fun. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/18 "2004-03-12T19:54:20Z")
> [@Since1973](#): > > I have defined a Love Group. Now you define a Love Group and lets let the Argument begin. I wish to debate the pros and cons of calvishinometric wozzersneezes. I define these as the things which I wish to debate. Please supply your definition of them, and then we can gleefully argue until we’re passed out unconscious from lack of oxygen. ---
**Author:** ![Since1973](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Since1973](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Since1973)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/19 "2004-03-12T19:54:54Z")
What is considered “White” has never changed. Not in the last 300,000 years anyway. People on the islands and land masses north of the Mediterranean have white skin because there is not much sun. It’s just geography being impressed into the DNA helix through RNA function. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943/20 "2004-03-12T19:57:39Z")
> [@Since1973](#): > > They just love the Country they founded and want to make it better. That’s a Love group. You introduced the outdated idea of race into this discussion once you tossed the above gem out. Now if you can reread my post…here I’ll help… > [@Grey](#): > > You defined a Love Group as a group that love themselves. Kudos. Now should that group collectively hate others, not of themselves, they could be a considered a Hate group. Notice how its not an either or proposition? Notice the conditional statement “now should that group”. It’s likely around a Grade 9 level reading comprehension thing. Hang in there. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orwell-love-is-hate-what-is-a-love-group/233943.md?page=2)