# Osama Bin Laden-Dead or Alive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 31, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768 "2003-01-31T01:11:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/1 "2003-01-31T01:11:13Z")
It has been my opinion now for about a year or more that OBL is dead. I say this based on what evidence I have seen in the media, and through my own conclusions drawn from them. I don’t believe he survived the bombing campaign early on in the war. A few points of relevence: He released video statements, which showed a progression of failing health, and/or stress induced fatigue. The last verifiable video released, he looked very ill. The following tape released (the one in front of the river) was, IMO, previously shot, and had backround added later. There have been no video releases with “proof of life” after the intensive bombing campaigns in the North. Since then, we only have voice recordings and faxes. The latest recording, not long ago, apparently verified to be OBL by the US. However, according to the Swiss (?), they have their doubts. I say, that given the circumstances, he would be going to any length in order to prove to the world that he is indeed alive. This has not happened. Many people, including gov’t officials speak as if he’s alive when the evidence I see tells me he is not. So, what do you say- dead or alive? ---
**Author:** ![avalongod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@avalongod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avalongod)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/2 "2003-01-31T01:15:58Z")
I have suspected that he is dead for some time…I have a tough time believing that a fellow like him wouldn’t put more effort into bragging about his survival. Despite the audio recording that was released some weeks ago, I don’t think any conclusive evidence has surfaced that he is still alive…although who knows maybe some will pop up. Personally I think it is interesting that Bush’s interest in OBL also seems to be dead. He (OBL. not Bush) barely ever gets mentioned any more. I think shifting world attention away from OBL and onto Saddam has been the most miraculous sleight of hand ever performed by a trickster world over. ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/3 "2003-01-31T01:20:38Z")
IMO it’s unknowable, but I reckon the smart money’s on dead. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/4 "2003-01-31T01:24:05Z")
Dead. There is too much propaganda value in AQ showing a picture of OBL holding yesterdays _Times_ for them not to have done it. Then again, I have seen some clever photoshop work, so would it be real, or Memorex? ---
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/5 "2003-01-31T05:15:19Z")
Dead. Narcissistic megalomaniacs crave recognition. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/6 "2003-01-31T06:00:04Z")
I’d love to say “Dead” but I don’t know and someone like him, well, I’d prefer to keep trying to find him until there’s proof to the contrary(or we do catch him) rather then assume he’s dead so he can relax and perhaps miss an oppurtunity of catching him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/7 "2003-01-31T06:21:34Z")
Seems like he’s dead, but if so why has no one stepped up to claim the $25M? Maybe he was blown to smiterines and there’s nothing left. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/8 "2003-01-31T07:53:15Z")
Hmm. I’m more interested in what the government thinks. How much effort is still being put into finding him, compared to the effort being put into the Iraq war effort? If the Osama effort is lower than it used to be (and my uninformed eye has the feeling that it is), does that mean that they think he’s dead, or that Iraq is more of a priority, or what? (Of course, the picture totally changes if you replace “Osama” with “al Quaeda (sic),” which I think is another debate entirely.) As another idle question: I wonder what the ideological breakdown would be if you compared liberals’ answers with conservatives’ answers… ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/9 "2003-01-31T09:00:31Z")
Alive, hiding, and gonna come back more evil than before (the NEW Osama, now with 33% more Evil[sup]TM[/sup]!!). Declaring him dead because he can’t go to Radio Shack in Pakistan and get a new video camera is foolhardy. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/10 "2003-01-31T10:59:10Z")
I suspect he is dead, but I hope he is alive and well. I hope he lives to be 120. I hope he does this in a cage in Cuba. I live in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. The home of the Bin Ladens and Idi Amin. If I see anyone in a thobe who is about six-seven I am tackling the sucker to get the reward. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/11 "2003-01-31T11:32:56Z")
I think he is dead, for the following reasons: 1. If he isn’t, Al Qaeda would be sending out videotapes of him left, right and center, holding a dated newspaper or referring non-obliquely to current events. 2. A London Times reporter who met Al Qaeda #2 and #3 in Karachi (#2 was later arrested there by the Pakistani authorities after a gun battle and the reporter now has a price on his haid) said that at one point they accidentally referred to bin Laden in the past tense. The alternative is that he’s so ill, or so maimed, that his image would be counterproductive to their propaganda. There was an alleged radio broadcast a few months ago that could back up this hypothesis, but its provenance is dubious at best. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/12 "2003-01-31T12:57:45Z")
Shortly after 9/11, the Bin Laden family (or herd, whatever) sold all of their RE holdings in Boston. I suspect that the evil wasn’t just OBL-some of his brothers and such seem to have been active participants as well. Frankly, the Al-Queda network probably includes a lot of wealth saudis, and due to the nature of our alliance (with the Saudi government) I doubt we will ever know the full story. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/13 "2003-01-31T14:24:36Z")
Alive until proven otherwise. That’s the only responsible basis for action. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/14 "2003-01-31T14:47:51Z")
He is considered to be alive, and in Yemen. I have this from senior Arab associates at a major international broadcasting organisation in the Middle East (not Jazeera). ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/15 "2003-01-31T14:56:46Z")
I agree that if OBL were still alive, he’d rub it in GWB’s face. OTOH, **ElvisL1ves** makes a good point. In support, I quote [Peter’s Evil Overlord List](http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html), rule#13: > [@](#): > > All slain enemies will be cremated, or at least have several rounds of ammunition emptied into them, not left for dead at the bottom of the cliff. The announcement of their deaths, as well as any accompanying celebration, will be deferred until after the aforementioned disposal. In other words: Don’t assume the person is dead – make very certain they’re dead. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/16 "2003-01-31T15:07:33Z")
Most likely alive, and smart enough to have learned not to say or do anything that could lead back to his location. No journalists, no camcorders, no telephones. Same thing with Mullah Omar, by the way. We haven’t heard a peep out of that SOB since our Afghan proxies let him go, but you don’t hear anybody speculating on his death, do you? Martyrdom is not something these nutballs would try to hide. If Osama has gone to Allah, we’ll hear about it. I suspect the next time we’ll see him is shortly after his organization pulls off another serious attack. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/17 "2003-01-31T15:56:41Z")
Who cares? Not the media, apparently not the american public opinion and certainly not your president. He just evaporated a couple of month ago. But don’t worry Saddam is alive and kicking, Castro is still with us, Chavez, Lula, that kim guy from N. Korea and the easter bunny. ---
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/18 "2003-01-31T16:09:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > Alive until proven otherwise. That’s the only responsible basis for action. Right. Wait. You weren’t talking about Elvis, were you? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Mothchunks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mothchunks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mothchunks)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/19 "2003-01-31T18:32:14Z")
The money raised from televising his execution Gala could feed starving children somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768/20 "2003-01-31T21:04:28Z")
I say alive and beside himself with glee. His big idea was to mount a huge attack on the US that would draw us into a big war in the Middle East which would then become a “war of civilizations.” So far, everything seems to be going according to plan. But, on an even MORE cynical note, I don’t think it matters whether he’s alive or dead because neither side would ever admit it if he’s dead. Al Q needs him as a semi-mythical leader-figure (L. Ron Hubbard, anyone?) and the Bushista needs him as an all-purpose boogyman to scare the populace into giving what they want, or at least keeping quiet while they take it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/151768.md?page=2)