# Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/259965 "2004-08-15T17:49:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/259965/41 "2004-08-16T14:45:34Z")
As far as the War on Terrorism goes, I’ve been watching for the _other_ reason Osama was important: His access to money. Quietly, I keep hearing of monetary sources being shut off. If we can do that, if we can keep on doing that, we’ll starve 'em. I hope. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/259965/42 "2004-08-16T15:05:40Z")
I think new financial sources should help shore up terrorists demands though… you will never totally cut them off financially. Especially with so many oil rich arabs. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/259965/43 "2004-08-16T16:33:56Z")
I’m referencing the book Imperial Hubris again, but reports of OBL being a multi-millionaire are exagerated. His family is very wealthy but he appears to have inherited about $11 million. Also, prior to the 9/11 attacks, AQ diversified it’s portfolio and bought a lot of diamonds and gold in anticipation of those measures. Plus, the Middle East has been using an informal network (halawa) for moving money around the world that is very efficient and would be impossible to shut down. I’ve used halawa to move money around this part of the world and so does the UN and the World Bank, it is that good. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/259965/44 "2004-08-16T16:40:57Z")
Sorry for answering my own post, but [this article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A22303-2002Feb16?language=printer) from the Washington Post talks about AQ diversifying it’s portfolio and the hawala network. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/259965/45 "2004-08-16T16:49:02Z")
> [@sevastopol](#): > > - enter legend: as America’s most wanted man, who they never can catch. Warrior for Islam concealed by God. Jolly Swagman\*. > > \*Obscure local reference. Does that mean that when we finally do kill him, if we haven’t already, he gets to sit beside a billabong with 72 virgin kangaroos? ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/259965/46 "2004-08-16T22:35:18Z")
I think he’s probably alive. Pure speculation on my part. I have toyed with the idea that the US gov’t already knows where he is, and were just waiting for the opportune time (such as mid-October) to “find” him. But since GWB’s slow but steady plunge in the polls, I can’t help but think this isn’t the case, or they’d be parading him around already in an effort to up GWB’s numbers. Again pure speculation, of course. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/259965/47 "2004-08-18T08:12:17Z")
Before the assualt on Afghanistan, the caves complex at Tora Bora was supposed to be OBL’s world headquarters…the NYT published drwings of what this complex supposedly looked like. It was like the Batcave…it had underground garages, a hospital, elaborate living quarters, etc. From what I saw, the British Royal Marines found the place and blew it up…they found a few ammunition caches…and that was it! Nothing so elaborate as was theorized. Anybody know more about this? Was OBL living in fine style in the hills, or was he living in a tent somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/259965/48 "2004-08-18T08:25:29Z")
It’s fun being invisible. The US made a huge blunder at Tora Bora by using Afghan allies to seal off the area and push the offensive. The failure of the US to commit large numbers of troops to the offensive allowed many Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters (and it appears OBL himeself to escape). Here’s an article on the subject for you to ignore: > **[Escape from Tora Bora](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/sep/04/afghanistan.september11)** > > Strategic blunders allowed thousands of fighters to flee on foot over the mountains. I don’t know how the NY Times described the complex, but according to Ghost Wars by Steven Coll, the Tora Bora complex was more a series of caves and trenches, some interconnected. While there certainly were medical facilities there, I think they looked more like battlefield aid stations, then the Bat Cave you describe. Here’s a review of Ghost Wars > **[Escape from Tora Bora](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/sep/04/afghanistan.september11)** > > Strategic blunders allowed thousands of fighters to flee on foot over the mountains. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/259965/49 "2004-08-18T22:53:16Z")
Sorry to continue the hijack, but… Concerning [http://www.electoral-vote.com](http://www.electoral-vote.com), **Martin Hyde** said: > [@Martin Hyde](#): > > That electoral-vote page uses far too many flawed polling systems (like Zogby, I’m sorry for all the Zogby fans but what that guy does is cleverly guess and get it right sometimes when no one else does, he does not a pollster make.) > > And state-wide polls are nothing like national polls, they change rapidly and are often not conducted with a very wide sampling. > > I’ve seen many a gubenatorial race in my time seem to “swing rapidly” from week to week. From the links on that page, it seems that the author is more in favor of Kerry. However, I don’t think that he is allowing this to affect his results/calculations. [This website, Election Projection](http://www.electionprojection.com/elections2004.html) has similar results (currently projecting Kerry winning electoral votes 327 to 211), that they’re blatantly biased towards Bush. The first headline on the main page is “Twenty-One Reasons Why Bush Will Win.” What do you think of the polling systems used here? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/259965/50 "2004-08-20T07:51:29Z")
> [@t-keela](#): > > I’d like to believe that too. But the ignorance is so widespread…besides he’s got Texas, Florida, and Caliiifirniiia pretty much in the bank. It wouldn’t take but a few undecided. > [It’s the new and improved version.](http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html) wow, that red dirt weed must have improved dramatically–send me some, brother. California’s electoral votes can be racked up for kerry right now. Florida is so much in play they will probly have to steal it again. Texas, well. Too bad about Santa Ana… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/259965.md?page=2)