# Osama Bin Laden is dead? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 23, 2006, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833 "2006-09-23T09:43:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/41 "2006-09-23T16:46:21Z")
[QUOTE=Menocchio] I didn’t just want Bin Laden dead. I wanted to rub his face in how much better we are. I wanted to demonstrate to the world how a civilized people deals with people like that, with justice and equity under the law. And if he died of typhus, we don’t get to do that. We don’t even get the pleasure of blowing his ass away. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but, dude - it’s been\* 5 years!\* It’s not like we’ve shown ourselves to be swift and mighty here. At this point, even if we did find him and string him up in front of the White House this afternoon, it’d look an awful lot like lucky happenstance. What’s so superior about stumbling across a sick old man 5 years after his coups de grâce? At this point, his eluding capture is an embarrassment. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/42 "2006-09-23T16:55:56Z")
[QUOTE=Menocchio] I didn’t just want Bin Laden dead. I wanted to rub his face in how much better we are. I wanted to demonstrate to the world how a civilized people deals with people like that, with justice and equity under the law. [/QUOTE] They ain’t going to buy that. They believe themselves to be right just as we do. My vote: rumor with it’s idle tongue, not true. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/43 "2006-09-23T17:07:54Z")
**Menocchio** , that’s a great post. Only trouble I see with it is that bin Laden’s conscience–to use the term incredibly loosely–doesn’t work the way civilized people’s does. He’d never learn or give up his idea that each and every horrible, unspeakable act he and his henchmen have done is sanctioned by God and justified. I mean, we’ve seen and been nauseated by how Saddam smirks and postures even as weeping Kurdish women describe his troops killing their children. Osama would be the same, only worse. This NY Times columnist had a great idea for trying Osama, BTW: instead of hauling him to a World Court or a US one, haul him around to each country he znd his did atrocities in–Kenya, Tanzania, Turkey, Jordan, Spain, Madrid, and yes, us, but ending up in Saudi Arabia, with a beheading before the only court he’ll recognize, a full Sharia one. [Lawrence Wright here.](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/22/opinion/22wright.html?_r=1&n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fContributors&oref=slogin) Yeah, of course it would bug me that a few wayward bacteria did what the mightiest army in the world could not. Hell yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/44 "2006-09-23T17:19:54Z")
[QUOTE=Rune] yes, the US did in fact kill him [/QUOTE] The first in a series of HILARIOUS spins if this turns out to be true. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/45 "2006-09-23T18:19:16Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Goddamit, this story isn’t supposed to come out til October! How can it be an **October surprise** if it’s not October? [/QUOTE] Ya know how Oktoberfest isn’t always in October? Yeah, it’s kinda like that. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/46 "2006-09-23T18:28:33Z")
[CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/23/france.binladen/index.html?section=cnn_topstories): > [@](#): > > PARIS, France (CNN) – Osama bin Laden has a water-borne illness, a Saudi intelligence source told CNN on Saturday, a report that conflicts with an article in a French newspaper saying that the al Qaeda leader is dead. > > The Saudi intelligence source told CNN’s Nic Robertson that there have been credible reports for the past several weeks that bin Laden is ill, but there has been no word of his death. > > The questions came in response to the publication of a report in the French regional newspaper L’Est Republicain on Saturday. > > The article cited a confidential French foreign intelligence document dated September 21 in which a source said the Saudis had received confirmation that bin Laden died of typhoid in Pakistan on August 23. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/47 "2006-09-23T18:32:17Z")
What’ve we learned from every bad horror/action movie? If we haven’t seen a body, he’s not dead. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/48 "2006-09-23T18:36:19Z")
Yep. It’ll be elusive as Hitler’s corpse and spawn just as many conspiracy theories for the next thirty years. I want proof. As least, unlike Hitler, they can’t burn his body if they’re devout–and, disgusting prevaricators they are, they probably won’t dare blow that. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/49 "2006-09-23T18:39:02Z")
Yeah, but hasn’t he had kidney problems for years, even before 9/11? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/50 "2006-09-23T18:39:59Z")
If it’s true, that’s wonderful (yes, I’d have also preferred trials). Until we see some real proof, though, I’m assuming the body is buried with al-Zarqawi’s prosthetic leg. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/51 "2006-09-23T18:41:13Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] As for an “in a cell” death - I still preferred a “wearing women’s underwear and compromised with a sheep” death. [/QUOTE] Hehehehehe 🙂 Goat, **jjimm** , goat. [QUOTE=RedFury] As for the rabid, frothing anti-Muslim\*, Gum, I suggest she doesn’t put on her dancing shoes just yet. [/QUOTE] \*\*\*I \*\*\* am rabid and frothing? Golly. Well, at least I _have_ a pair of dancing shoes, instead of an American ex-wife and a son who doesn’t want to be with me. And I _am_ able to count up to twenty without taking off said dancing shoes. \*_[not anti-Moslim. Merely anti-Islam]_ BBC says nothing confirmed yet. And says that typhoid leads to a partial paralysis of his internal organs. > **[BBC NEWS | Europe | Probe into 'Bin Laden death' leak](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5374160.stm)** > > President Chirac orders an inquiry into a leaked French intelligence memo claiming Osama Bin Laden had died. So he had no use for a goat, either… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/52 "2006-09-23T18:41:52Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > And if [Osama] was shot in the shoulder and died as a result of infection in the wound, that could not be treated in his hideout, that would be a natural death also. However there is little doubt that a man with his resources would not normally die as a result of typhoid and that this must be the result of the pressure he was under following the hunt on him. So yes, the US did in fact kill him – if in a circumspect indirect way. If the reports are true. > [@Menocchio](#): > > It’s like Ken Lay dying before sentencing. Yeah, he’s dead, but we’ve been cheated out of our retribution and of making him an example of what happens to people like that. Well, by **Rune** ’s logic, since Lay’s heart attack was doubtless at least partly caused by the stress of his trial and conviction, he was actually executed by our criminal justice system (“if in a circumspect indirect way”). Or maybe he was murdered by the mass media, or by the execrations of a contemptuous public, or all of the above, depending on which of those factors caused him the most physical stress. Anyway, I guess that’ll teach him, huh? Of course, by that same logic, if Osama died of typhoid due to lack of medical care in a remote location, he was killed not by the US alone, but by the combined efforts of all the troops and others who were forcing him to stay in hiding. And of course, they have to share the responsibility/credit for that with all the citizens who supported and paid for their efforts… Good lord, I just realized that by this logic, _I_ killed Osama! (Assuming that he’s actually dead, that is.) ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/53 "2006-09-23T18:43:45Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] If it’s true, that’s wonderful (yes, I’d have also preferred trials). Until we see some real proof, though, I’m assuming the body is buried with al-Zarqawi’s prosthetic leg. [/QUOTE] Hahahahahahahaha 🙂 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/54 "2006-09-23T18:52:52Z")
> [@](#): > > **Menocchio** : …A trial, a fair and open trial I mean, would have shown that our way works, that civilization is better than barbarism. That even someone who has wronged us as much as bin Laden did gets his day in court, and that democracy and the rule of law is much much stronger than that piece of shit. And then, only after we’ve demonstrated to bib Laden and the world how much better we are, we get to mete out whatever punishment the system decides is fair. > > I didn’t just want Bin Laden dead. I wanted to rub his face in how much better we are. I wanted to demonstrate to the world how a civilized people deals with people like that, with justice and equity under the law… That was what I had in mind too until this past week with the “compromise” that the White House and Senate leaders have worked out for Guantanamo detainees. They will have military trials, not “open” trials. According to one George Washington University law professor, the Geneva Conventions cannot even be _referenced_ during their trials. Information that was gained through torture can be used against those charged. And, of course, the same techniques that have been being used can continue as long as they don’t cause permanent damage to the organs or death. So much for justice and equity under the law. Of the approximately 450 human beings held in Guantanamo, only about ten have been charged with a crime. Are we still a civilized people? What is it we have left to demonstrate to the rest of the world about law and justice? I have no doubt about bin Laden’s guilt and I hope he gets everything he deserves. I wish the same for _anyone_ who denies others basic human rights. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/55 "2006-09-23T18:55:57Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] I have no doubt about bin Laden’s guilt and I hope he gets everything he deserves. I wish the same for anyone who denies others basic human rights. [/QUOTE] Yep. And some little mountain goats for all, too. [Or am I being too generous?] ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/56 "2006-09-23T18:58:24Z")
Yep. And mean to goats. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/57 "2006-09-23T19:15:52Z")
[QUOTE=Mehitabel] Yep. And mean to goats. :mad: [/QUOTE] You are right. I am sorry. _hangs head in shame and starts collecting old tin cans for the goats in the zoo_ ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/58 "2006-09-23T19:33:38Z")
Maybe I’m missing something, but if bin Laden really did die of typhoid, it might be better than if he’d been caught and executed, or even just hit by a stray bullet. He might not reach quite the same level of martyrdom this way. Granted some people will see him as a martyr no matter what, this way it’ll be harder for AQ or other groups to blame the U.S. for this. If it’s true, it might not be a bad thing. It does make a pretty bad statement about our armed forces, though, if it was typhoid that got him in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/59 "2006-09-23T20:16:09Z")
[QUOTE=appleciders] Maybe I’m missing something, but if bin Laden really did die of typhoid, it might be better than if he’d been caught and executed, or even just hit by a stray bullet. He might not reach quite the same level of martyrdom this way. Granted some people will see him as a martyr no matter what, this way it’ll be harder for AQ or other groups to blame the U.S. for this. [/QUOTE] I think you’re missing three things, at least: what he did while he was alive (because that would be the basis for his legend, not the manner of his death), his escape from justice, and the fact that people will spin whatever happens to him. Al Qaeda wouldn’t need to blame the US for his death, since Bush would willingly take credit for it. Bin Laden a martyr no matter what because people would feel that he gave his life for his cause. If he dies uncaptured, he becomes sort of a Pancho Villa/Robin Hood figure (although he’s probably reached that status already). ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833/60 "2006-09-23T20:16:21Z")
So who’s going to be the first Republican talkshow pundit to claim that it was actually a germ warfare program of the US"s that got Osama? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/373833.md?page=4)