# Osama bin Laden is Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437 "2011-05-02T02:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/181 "2011-05-02T16:16:31Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Why are you adding the ‘or kill’? The update you quoted only talks about taking him alive. I’m saying the same thing the update says: the goal was to kill him, not take him alive with killing him as a last resort. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/182 "2011-05-02T16:20:19Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Well duh, but he might have gotten over after a decade if we had left. Wild speculation based on nothing, means nothing, adds nothing to the discussion. However… > [@Cisco](#): > > My cite: Wright, Lawrence, _The Looming Tower_. However, Mr. Wright dwells extensively on the career of Sayyid Qutb. It is not speculation of any kind that: 1. Qutb was OBL’s intellectual inspiration, and 2. Qutb was hostile to the US and Western culture as of the late 1940s, _50 years before there were any US troops in SA._ That pretty strongly suggests the accuracy of my position, doesn’t it? Oh, and when a citation is not availble on the internet the hardcopy should be quoted, including the page number, so please follow up on this promise of ours, even though we were entitled to accomodate our hosts’ request to stay longer. ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/183 "2011-05-02T16:27:05Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I think we can be sure it he’s dead. If not, he’ll be on video in a week with a copy of that day’s New York Times. You can bet on that. How much of a blow would that be to U.S. credibility? > > Obama isn’t going to risk that unless they are sure. My guess is that there will be a video in a few days showing someone who looks very like Bin Laden holding a picture of that day’s New York Times. So what, that’s no reason _not_ to have killed him, right? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/184 "2011-05-02T16:28:17Z")
[http://www.freep.com/article/20110502/NEWS05/305020002/1317/headlines/Detroit-area-Arab-Americans-Muslims-rejoice-at-death-of-bin-Laden](http://www.freep.com/article/20110502/NEWS05/305020002/1317/headlines/Detroit-area-Arab-Americans-Muslims-rejoice-at-death-of-bin-Laden) Here is how Dearborn reacted. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/185 "2011-05-02T16:37:10Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’d like to buy a round of beer for those guys. Good work. How would you like to have been _the_ guy? “You have the right to remain… ah, fuck it.” 🙂 Although, here’s a prediction: a contingent of Americans will insist that since bin Laden wasn’t actually buried in the ground, how do we know he’s actually dead? Can we call them ‘earthers?’ ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/186 "2011-05-02T16:43:04Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://www.freep.com/article/20110502/NEWS05/305020002/1317/headlines/Detroit-area-Arab-Americans-Muslims-rejoice-at-death-of-bin-Laden](http://www.freep.com/article/20110502/NEWS05/305020002/1317/headlines/Detroit-area-Arab-Americans-Muslims-rejoice-at-death-of-bin-Laden) > Here is how Dearborn reacted. Why wouldn’t they be happy, Bin Laden killed more Muslims than Americans. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/187 "2011-05-02T16:50:38Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > The only reason I agree is because we shan’t bring ourselves to their level. However, if anyone’s naked and beaten corpse deserves to be impaled on a spike in front of the White House, it is Osama bin Laden’s. Bush is responsible for far, far more corpses than bin Laden. Where’s his gibbet? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/188 "2011-05-02T16:57:59Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > “You have the right to remain… ah, fuck it.” 🙂 > > Although, here’s a prediction: a contingent of Americans will insist that since bin Laden wasn’t actually buried in the ground, how do we know he’s actually dead? Can we call them ‘earthers?’ It’s crossed my mind that he may have shot himself but saying an American bullet did it sounds better. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/189 "2011-05-02T17:01:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Some other details I found interesting: > > [CNN reports [as of the 8:52 a.m. Eastern update] that the mission was intended to kill bin Laden, not to capture or kill him.](http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/02/obama-to-make-statment-tonight-subject-unknown/?hpt=T1&iref=BN1) However [ABC reports that bin Laden was asked to surrender, and was shot dead after he refused (it’s not clear from the wording if they mean he verbally refused or kept shooting or what have you).](http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/inside-operation-brought-osama-bin-laden/story?id=13506413&page=2) He was shot once in the head, and shot a second time to make sure he was dead. CNN said [at 7:30 Eastern) that there are photographs of him, but the government has not decided if they will be released. > > ABC also has this to report on DNA analysis to confirm it’s him: The buried at sea thing seems strange to me. Were they afraid his body would be stolen if they buried him in Afghanistan? And if it was, so what? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/190 "2011-05-02T17:06:07Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > What is really weird is that to my students (16-18), it’s a non-event. Some guy that’s supposed to be really bad died. It doesn’t mean anything to them. Someone just posted a link about Arab Americans celebrating. Going through the pictures there are lots of shots of what look like teenagers or 20 somethings celebrating and waving flags. These kids were what 10 or 11, when the towers came down. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/191 "2011-05-02T17:06:36Z")
I want to know which of the men were using women as shields. It would seem to me that with such an operation there would be numerous advantages to filming whatever’s possible as long as it had zero impact on the action itself. Not someone running around with a camera but just gunship and helmet attached views. Documentation, training, defense from accusations of wrongdoing, etc. I wonder if that was done and, if so, if it’ll ever become public. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/192 "2011-05-02T17:06:52Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > The buried at sea thing seems strange to me. Were they afraid his body would be stolen if they buried him in Afghanistan? And if it was, so what? I imagine they didn’t want anyone building a mosque or shrine near the grave. ---
**Author:** ![Godinama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@Godinama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Godinama)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/193 "2011-05-02T17:08:46Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > It’s crossed my mind that he may have shot himself but saying an American bullet did it sounds better. Assuming he is as religious as they say, suicide is _verboten_ in Islam. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/194 "2011-05-02T17:09:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As I said in the Pit thread, I really don’t like all this celebrating. It’s a solemn occasion, and we shouldn’t be dancing on the guy’s grave and acting like our team just won the Super Bowl. Good riddance, ObL, but I’m not in a celebratory mood over this thing. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/195 "2011-05-02T17:11:25Z")
> [@Godinama](#): > > Assuming he is as religious as they say, suicide is _verboten_ in Islam. I wondered about that but didn’t know. Now I wonder if there are exceptions, such as, about to be captured and tortured by the enemy, which might bring harm to fellow jihadists. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/196 "2011-05-02T17:12:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I imagine they didn’t want anyone building a mosque or shrine near the grave. Ahhhh that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/197 "2011-05-02T17:15:28Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > The buried at sea thing seems strange to me. Were they afraid his body would be stolen if they buried him in Afghanistan? And if it was, so what? They’re now saying that no nation was willing or able to take the body, and so burial at sea was the only remaining option in accordance with Islamic custom, which basically required they dispose of the body one way or another within 24 hours. I am sure the shrine/memorial was something they were concerned about and I wouldn’t be surprised if the other stuff was cover, but we’ll see. I don’t think they were worried about the body being stolen specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/198 "2011-05-02T17:16:43Z")
If I had the say, I would have constructed a Gay Christian Wedding Chapel on his grave. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/199 "2011-05-02T17:19:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I said what I meant to, but the emphasis might be unclear: the intent of the mission was to _kill_ bin Laden, not capture _or_ kill him. The update is still there if you scroll down far enough: Ok, then we’re loading a different page, because when I Ctrl+F what you wrote, I get nothing. > [@colonial](#): > > Wild speculation based on nothing, means nothing, adds nothing > to the discussion. Based on the fact that bin Laden didn’t attack the US for over a decade after we put troops in Saudi Arabia (August, 1990 - Desert Shield begins; October, 2000 - USS Cole is bombed). > [@colonial](#): > > However, Mr. Wright dwells extensively on the career of Sayyid Qutb. > It is not speculation of any kind that: > > 1. Qutb was OBL’s intellectual inspiration, and > > 2. Qutb was hostile to the US and Western culture as of the late 1940s, > _50 years before there were any US troops in SA._ > > That pretty strongly suggests the accuracy of my position, doesn’t it? No. > [@colonial](#): > > Oh, and when a citation is not availble on the internet the hardcopy should > be quoted, including the page number, so please follow up on this promise > of ours, even though we were entitled to accomodate our hosts’ request > to stay longer. You lost me. > [@lieu](#): > > I want to know which of the men were using women as shields. > > It would seem to me that with such an operation there would be numerous advantages to filming whatever’s possible as long as it had zero impact on the action itself. Not someone running around with a camera but just gunship and helmet attached views. Documentation, training, defense from accusations of wrongdoing, etc. I wonder if that was done and, if so, if it’ll ever become public. I don’t believe the human shield thing for a second. I could be convinced otherwise, but only with rock-solid evidence like video. It’s just too comic-booky. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/200 "2011-05-02T17:20:26Z")
Which body of water I wonder, The Arabian Sea? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437.md?page=11)