# Osama bin Laden is Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437 "2011-05-02T02:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![tingbudong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tingbudong/32/520_2.png) [@tingbudong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tingbudong)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/221 "2011-05-02T18:13:40Z")
The [take down footage](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-7rT84opDw) is up as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/222 "2011-05-02T18:13:55Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Are you sure? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/223 "2011-05-02T18:18:02Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Found his house on Google Earth: > > 34 10’ 09.36 N > 73 14’ 33.29 E That MSNBC link gives slightly different coordinates: 34.169271, 73.242618 ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/224 "2011-05-02T18:22:03Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > That MSNBC link gives slightly different coordinates: > > 34.169271, 73.242618 Then either MSNBC or Google Earth is incorrect cause I’m sitting here looking at it. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/225 "2011-05-02T18:24:23Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > That MSNBC link gives slightly different coordinates: > > 34.169271, 73.242618 Those are the same coordinates, just with one in decimal format, the other in D, M, S. Type both into Google Earth and you get the same house. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/226 "2011-05-02T18:25:09Z")
Yes, I think you’re right. A street view shows what looks to be the compound just behind. As someone mentioned elsewhere, I’d be hard pressed to have referred to it as a “mansion.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/227 "2011-05-02T18:44:28Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Bay of Pigs. I thought the obvious choice would have been the Dead Sea. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/228 "2011-05-02T18:49:36Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Based on the fact that bin Laden didn’t attack the US for over a decade after we put troops in Saudi Arabia (August, 1990 - Desert Shield begins; October, 2000 - USS Cole is bombed). Per Wiki the first AQ murder of an American took place on 11/5/90 OBL was by personally implicated in anti-US terrorist plotting by documents captured captured on 11/8/90. If this is true then your argument that OBL might have mellowed is serioulsy undermined. > [@Cisco](#): > > No. If OBL’s intellectual and spiritual mentor could be aroused to anti-US hostility without a US presence in SA then it certainly does suggest that OBL himself would also be. > [@Cisco](#): > > You lost me. Oh, I am confident that your reading comprehension skills are up to the task of mastering my straightforward prose. Give it another try why don’t you. > [@Cisco](#): > > I don’t believe the human shield thing for a second. I could be convinced otherwise, but only with rock-solid evidence like video. It’s just too comic-booky. What we have above is actually a sort of comic-buggery, where one of our members plays apologetic catamite on behalf of a fiend who for decades now has specialized in murdering 1000s of innicent people, 100s of them women. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/229 "2011-05-02T18:53:14Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > What we have above is actually a sort of comic-buggery, where one of our members plays apologetic catamite on behalf of a fiend who for decades now has specialized in murdering 1000s of innicent people, 100s of them women. This kind of post is totally inappropriate for Great Debates. Don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/230 "2011-05-02T19:19:50Z")
> [@biddee](#): > > Interesting that [this](http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_nuclear-hellstorm-if-osama-bin-laden-is-caught-or-killed-al-qaeda_1535969) article appeared just 5 days before his death… Worth a chuckle. Yes, al-Qaeda, you have a nuke in Europe and you’re willing to show restraint as long as Osama isn’t killed. Sure. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/231 "2011-05-02T19:43:00Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I think we can be sure it he’s dead. If not, he’ll be on video in a week with a copy of that day’s New York Times. You can bet on that. How much of a blow would that be to U.S. credibility? > > Obama isn’t going to risk that unless they are sure. The conspiracy minded may believe that he is in custody now being tortured for information before being disposed of at sea. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/232 "2011-05-02T20:10:44Z")
This just in: Osama bin Laden is still dead. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/233 "2011-05-02T20:51:04Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I don’t believe the human shield thing for a second. I could be convinced otherwise, but only with rock-solid evidence like video. It’s just too comic-booky. Why do you think you have any kind of accurate insight into what actually happened in a military raid in which you were not involved? There are a million variables related to human emotions, desire to survive, sequence of events that were actually occurring, etc., etc., etc. - it’s pretty damn bizarre to think that you can determine what happened based on whether the description of events sounds cliche or not. I guarantee you that even the trained experts that went on the mission could not have predicted in advance the other people’s actions. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/234 "2011-05-02T20:57:32Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I guarantee you that even the trained experts that went on the mission could not have predicted in advance the other people’s actions. In the press conference today it was pointed out that Bin Ladin or someone else could have shoved her in front of him, or she could have moved in front of him of her own volition. ---
**Author:** ![TexasDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@TexasDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexasDriver)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/235 "2011-05-02T21:54:24Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m waiting for the Onion headline: “Trump demands long-form Osama death certificate.” LOL!! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/236 "2011-05-02T22:12:08Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Why do you think you have any kind of accurate insight into what actually happened in a military raid in which you were not involved? > > There are a million variables related to human emotions, desire to survive, sequence of events that were actually occurring, etc., etc., etc. - it’s pretty damn bizarre to think that you can determine what happened based on whether the description of events sounds cliche or not. I’ve heard too many first-hand accounts from servicemen about the military feeding the media bullshit; I read the detailed account of the attempt at hero creation in _Where Men Win Glory_, I saw the Captain fuck up and kill civilians in _Restrepo_, and then not even be able to admit it to himself when he was talking about it later, even though it was on camera. I’m not saying I know what happened. Maybe they did use women as human shields. I highly doubt it, though; it just fits too well into the narrative of bin Laden as Count Nefaria. It’s much more plausible to me that they accidentally shot a woman (or hell, maybe she was shooting at them), and said to themselves after the fact: “well, this is a no-brainer.” > [@RaftPeople](#): > > I guarantee you that even the trained experts that went on the mission could not have predicted in advance the other people’s actions. I can’t figure out what you’re getting at here. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/237 "2011-05-02T23:00:39Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I’m not saying I know what happened. Maybe they did use women as human shields. I highly doubt it, though; it just fits too well into the narrative of bin Laden as Count Nefaria. It’s much more plausible to me that they accidentally shot a woman (or hell, maybe she was shooting at them), and said to themselves after the fact: “well, this is a no-brainer.” I agree that we can’t really know and there’s no good reason to believe every detail we’re told. Speculation also doesn’t mean much. I imagine the the Seal time was also ordered to not risk themselves , which might result in the shooting of a civilians. If I was harboring a mass murderer in my home , for whatever reason, and there was a raid, I’d say the decision to have civilians in the house with a mass murderer was a choice made by someone besides the raiding party. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/238 "2011-05-02T23:20:03Z")
The reports on al-Jazeera seem to be even-handed. It mentions, for example, that bin Laden was buried according to Islamic laws. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/239 "2011-05-02T23:33:45Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > The buried at sea thing seems strange to me. Were they afraid his body would be stolen if they buried him in Afghanistan? And if it was, so what? The important thing is that when he arrives in hell, he won’t be able to blame it on a snafu in burial procedure. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/240 "2011-05-03T00:30:09Z")
If there really was no advance notice to the Pakistanis, it’s a rather startling demonstration of their military incompetence. What have they been _doing_ with all the French and American air defense technology we’ve bought for them (directly or indirectly) these last few years? Surely this site–thirty-odd miles from the capital, in a town with military facilities–is under the umbrella of their best gear? BTW, check out [this picture](http://blogs.abcnews.com/.a/6a00d8341c4df253ef01543214b41d970c-pi) of Obama and company following the operation. That’s Brig. Gen. Marshall B. Webb of the Joint Special Operations Command at the head of the table. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437.md?page=13)