# Osama bin Laden is Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437 "2011-05-02T02:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/241 "2011-05-03T00:39:31Z")
[QUOTE=spark240] check out [this picture](http://blogs.abcnews.com/.a/6a00d8341c4df253ef01543214b41d970c-pi) of Obama and company following the operation. That’s Brig. Gen. Marshall B. Webb of the Joint Special Operations Command at the head of the table. [/QUOTE] I think that will become a famous picture. Also, I wonder what’s blurred out of HRC’s laptop. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/242 "2011-05-03T00:48:49Z")
I was listening to Rory Block’s cover of\* Crossroad Blues\* and noticed that CNN was showing clips of Bin Laden. It was freaky. “Save Old Bob, if you please.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/243 "2011-05-03T00:51:17Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Also, I wonder what’s blurred out of HRC’s laptop. She’s playing the modified Doom wad where the imps look like Bill. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/244 "2011-05-03T02:44:22Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > The reports on al-Jazeera seem to be even-handed. It mentions, for example, that bin Laden was buried according to Islamic laws. Was that the English or Arabic site? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/245 "2011-05-03T02:55:56Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > OBL did not even want the US to be in SA _temporarily_ during Gulf War I, and I would like a citation, please, for this promise you mention. Even if we made such a promise it was superceded by invitation of the SA government. > > Furthermore, even if the US had not set foot in SA I think it is likely that Israel’s mere exisitence would have been enough to incite OBL to his life of terror. ObL gave no indication of being anything but another Saudi rich kid until the Soviet imperialist adventure in Afghanistan gave him A Cause[tm]. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/246 "2011-05-03T03:48:40Z")
I was practically ecstatic when I heard the news. THANK GOD! I was humming the “Battle Hymn of the Republic” throughout the day, really appropriate song especially the “terrible swift sword” part. Also fuck Venezeula [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions\_to\_the\_death\_of\_Osama\_bin\_Laden](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_death_of_Osama_bin_Laden): > [@](#): > > # Venezuela – Vice President Elias Jaua condemned the killing and subsequent celebrations, saying: “It surprises me to no end how natural crime and murder [have] become, how [they are] celebrated”. He added: “At least before imperialist governments were more subtle.” Jaua elaborated this, stating that now the deaths, both of people working outside the law and of families of presidents (no matter what they are accused of) “are openly celebrated by the leaders of the nations that bomb them”.[79][80][81] The comment just makes me sick. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/247 "2011-05-03T03:55:35Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Also, I wonder what’s blurred out of HRC’s laptop. Porn. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/248 "2011-05-03T04:01:45Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I don’t believe the human shield thing for a second. I could be convinced otherwise, but only with rock-solid evidence like video. It’s just too comic-booky. > [@spark240](#): > > BTW, check out [this picture](http://blogs.abcnews.com/.a/6a00d8341c4df253ef01543214b41d970c-pi) of Obama and company following the operation. That’s Brig. Gen. Marshall B. Webb of the Joint Special Operations Command at the head of the table. That picture, and [this article](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4063674,00.html) suggest that I might be able to be proven wrong about the human shield thing. I hope I’m not reading too much into it, but it sounds like there is video of the raid: > [@](#): > > Rare behind-the-scenes images released by the US Monday showed top Administration officials monitoring Bin Laden’s assassination live from the White House Situation Room. > > The photographs show both President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton intently watching live images of the operation as it unfolds on the screens in front of them. I don’t know how I’d feel about watching the footage, or even it being released . . . but part of me hopes it’s out there so we don’t have to suffer decades of tinhatters on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/249 "2011-05-03T04:19:49Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > BTW, check out [this picture](http://blogs.abcnews.com/.a/6a00d8341c4df253ef01543214b41d970c-pi) of Obama and company following the operation. That’s Brig. Gen. Marshall B. Webb of the Joint Special Operations Command at the head of the table. Funny thing is, they were actually watching _The Apprentice_ when this photo was taken. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/250 "2011-05-03T04:20:29Z")
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m already getting tired of all this self-congratulatory nonsense. So you pointlessly murdered an old man in Pakistan… So what? At what point do you stop patting your own backs and start explaining how this changes anything for the better? I believe that it has long been crystal-clear that Osama bin Laden was no longer a relevant player in today’s world. Given that he had apparently been entirely marginalized as a commander and a policy-setter, what exactly is the supposed military or political value of his murder? What is there to celebrate? Let’s be honest with ourselves for a second: the Afghani double-agent that recently suicide-bombed a number of high-level CIA operatives in Kabul saved a lot more lives with his actions than did bin Laden’s killers. Nor does this make any sense from a viewpoint of retribution (assuming that you are a rational person and not an unabashed hypocrite). As has been mentioned in this thread (and conveniently ignored by subsequent posters), Little Bush killed hundreds of times more people than bin Laden by even the most forgiving of estimates. Hell, so did pretty much every US President ever. Bin Laden was a relatively minor world player, all things considered. Once again, why the celebrations? Sometimes I do not understand Westerners. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/251 "2011-05-03T04:21:03Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Also, I wonder what’s blurred out of HRC’s laptop. It looks like it it could even be a surveillance photo of the compound taken from the air. It seems to be the right shape, but maybe I’m trying to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/252 "2011-05-03T04:24:10Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m already getting tired of all this self-congratulatory nonsense. The door is on your left. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/253 "2011-05-03T04:24:54Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m already getting tired of all this self-congratulatory nonsense. So you pointlessly murdered an old man in Pakistan… So what? At what point do you stop patting your own backs and start explaining how this changes anything for the better? Justice, just like Israel nabbed Eichmann. A murderer of thousands of people, the evilest man alive in the world. > [@](#): > > I believe that it has long been crystal-clear that Osama bin Laden was no longer a relevant player in today’s world. Given that he had apparently been entirely marginalized as a commander and a policy-setter, what exactly is the supposed military or political value of his murder? What is there to celebrate? Let’s be honest with ourselves for a second: the Afghani double-agent that recently suicide-bombed a number of high-level CIA operatives in Kabul saved a lot more lives with his actions than did bin Laden’s killers. The CIA is fighting for justice and humanity in Afghanistan against reactionary forces who would imposed a theocratic, mediaeval Caliphate where rape victims are publically executed and kept illiterate. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Nor does this make any sense from a viewpoint of retribution (assuming that you are a rational person and not an unabashed hypocrite). As has been mentioned in this thread (and conveniently ignored by subsequent posters), Little Bush killed hundreds of times more people than bin Laden by even the most forgiving of estimates. Hell, so did pretty much every US President ever. Bin Laden was a relatively minor world player, all things considered. Once again, why the celebrations? > > Except Bush intended to kill those who did evil while Bin Laden killed innocents. Sort of like how a policemen whose shot several murderers in the line of duty is different from a man whose randomly kidnapped and brutally mutiliated and murdered a random person. > > > [@](#): > > > > Sometimes I do not understand Westerners. [/QUOTE] And I don’t understand commies, considering OBL was an enemy of your beloved USSR. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/254 "2011-05-03T04:25:09Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m already getting tired of all this self-congratulatory nonsense. So you pointlessly murdered an old man in Pakistan… So what? At what point do you stop patting your own backs and start explaining how this changes anything for the better? > > I believe that it has long been crystal-clear that Osama bin Laden was no longer a relevant player in today’s world. Given that he had apparently been entirely marginalized as a commander and a policy-setter, what exactly is the supposed military or political value of his murder? What is there to celebrate? Let’s be honest with ourselves for a second: the Afghani double-agent that recently suicide-bombed a number of high-level CIA operatives in Kabul saved a lot more lives with his actions than did bin Laden’s killers. > > Nor does this make any sense from a viewpoint of retribution (assuming that you are a rational person and not an unabashed hypocrite). As has been mentioned in this thread (and conveniently ignored by subsequent posters), Little Bush killed hundreds of times more people than bin Laden by even the most forgiving of estimates. Hell, so did pretty much every US President ever. Bin Laden was a relatively minor world player, all things considered. Once again, why the celebrations? > > Sometimes I do not understand Westerners. I’m getting tired of all this “old man” nonsense. He was 54! Are we that youth-obsessed? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/255 "2011-05-03T04:26:36Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > I believe that it has long been crystal-clear that Osama bin Laden was no longer a relevant player in today’s world. Given that he had apparently been entirely marginalized as a commander and a policy-setter, what exactly is the supposed military or political value of his murder? What’s the statute of limitations on 9/11? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/256 "2011-05-03T04:27:18Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Little Bush killed hundreds of times more people than bin Laden by even the most forgiving of estimates. Hell, so did pretty much every US President ever. William Henry Harrison was especially efficient at it. > [@](#): > > Sometimes I do not understand Westerners. The matter has nothing to do with “Westerners”; Osama bin Laden was inspired to get into the jihad business in response to Soviet Communist imperialism. Please try to keep up with the class. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/257 "2011-05-03T04:28:01Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Nor does this make any sense from a viewpoint of retribution (assuming that you are a rational person and not an unabashed hypocrite). As has been mentioned in this thread (and conveniently ignored by subsequent posters), Little Bush killed hundreds of times more people than bin Laden by even the most forgiving of estimates. Except the vast majority of them had nothing to do with 9-11; that’s one of the things that made Bush and America’s post-911 behavior so disgusting. At least bin Laden was _actually guilty of something_. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/258 "2011-05-03T04:40:48Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I was practically ecstatic when I heard the news. THANK GOD! I was humming the “Battle Hymn of the Republic” throughout the day, really appropriate song especially the “terrible swift sword” part. Does the word swift have another meaning I wasn’t aware of? ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/259 "2011-05-03T04:50:22Z")
Come on Christians! Enjoy and Celebrate MURDER! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/260 "2011-05-03T05:03:25Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I guess you could make an argument for the technical/factual accuracy of that statement, but it doesn’t really make sense. “bin Laden,” to us, = 9/11. Why would he hate us for what our enemy did in the 80s? Well, strictly speaking, the Mujhadin were created out of the intersection of religious fervor, Russia’s invasion of Afghanistan, and the US’ attempts to keep Afghanistan from being dominated by Russia. But without the Russian attempt to dominate Afghanistan, Bin Laden would’ve just been an egghead schmuck with a fondness for Qutb. Which brings me to: > [@Cisco](#): > > bin Laden, as we knew him, was the product of us putting our military in Saudi Arabia during Gulf War I and leaving it there (despite promises not to do so.) Not really. Bin Laden’s grudge against Saudi Arabia went far beyond his hatred of the US or our stationing troops there. He was essentially a product of Qutb’s teachings and the religious fervor that typified much of the resistance to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437.md?page=14)