# Osama bin Laden is Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437 "2011-05-02T02:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/101 "2011-05-02T05:18:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > NBC/MSNBC. I don’t know what they’ve posted online, but they’ve been talking about it on air for a while. Thank you. Just found this article on their site, a lot more detailed than what I’d seen on CNN’s: [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42853221/ns/world\_news-south\_and\_central\_asia/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42853221/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/102 "2011-05-02T05:21:13Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Yes the Fox affiliate in Jackson, Ms is part of the conspiracy :rolleyes: You’re just pissed because they stole your idea. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/103 "2011-05-02T05:23:20Z")
I have always been surprised that OBL managed to stay free so long given that the US obviously spent massive resources trying to capture/kill him. It [appears](http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2011/05/more_on_the_bin/)that he was in a compound near Islamabad, Pakistan’s capital, and he was captured with information from the ISI. If OBL has been on Pakistan soil for a long time you have to imagine that the ISI would have known about it long before now so I wonder what induced them to reveal his location now. There was possibly some kind of back-room deal but we probably won’t know about it for many years. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/104 "2011-05-02T05:24:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You’re just pissed because they stole your idea. Heh, true. That looks like a clear typographical error of someome trying to get something onto a screen quickly. The affiliates aren’t micro managed to that extent! ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/105 "2011-05-02T05:26:03Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > I have always been surprised that OBL managed to stay free so long given that the US obviously spent massive resources trying to capture/kill him. It [appears](http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2011/05/more_on_the_bin/)that he was in a compound near Islamabad, Pakistan’s capital, and he was captured with information from the ISI. If OBL has been on Pakistan soil for a long time you have to imagine that the ISI would have known about it long before now so I wonder what induced them to reveal his location now. There was possibly some kind of back-room deal but we probably won’t know about it for many years. That’s my guess or perhaps a change in the internal power structure of Pakistani intelligence who saw some benefit in getting rid of him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/106 "2011-05-02T05:26:31Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > I have always been surprised that OBL managed to stay free so long given that the US obviously spent massive resources trying to capture/kill him. It [appears](http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2011/05/more_on_the_bin/)that he was in a compound near Islamabad, Pakistan’s capital, and he was captured with information from the ISI. We’ll have to see about that. Obama definitely did not say the Pakistani government was informed or approved of the strike, and nobody else has said they were informed. I wonder if this guy is onto something or if he’s just off base. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/107 "2011-05-02T05:28:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We’ll have to see about that. Obama definitely did not say the Pakistani government was informed or approved of the strike, and nobody else has said they were informed. I wonder if this guy is onto something or if he’s just off base. Wasn’t there comments that there were Pakistani forces present? ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/108 "2011-05-02T05:29:17Z")
CNN just mentioned that the US had not informed Pakistan they were green lighting the strike, whatever that may be worth (or if even true). ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/109 "2011-05-02T05:30:30Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Wow, not even a drone, an actual special forces raid. When you care enough to send the very best. Closure. Justice. Finally. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/110 "2011-05-02T05:35:13Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Wasn’t there comments that there were Pakistani forces present? No, Obama specifically said “a small team of Americans carried out the operation” and he mentioned calling President Zardari in the evening. NBC is reporting confirmation from the Pakistani government that they were not informed until it was over. Obama did praise Pakistani cooperation in a general way by saying “our counterterrorism cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to bin Laden and the compound where he was hiding.” ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/111 "2011-05-02T05:45:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We’ll have to see about that. Obama definitely did not say the Pakistani government was informed or approved of the strike, and nobody else has said they were informed. I wonder if this guy is onto something or if he’s just off base. It jives with the recently building tension between the State dept. and the Pakistani government. It seems that the U.S. is close to losing its patience, and this was probably an important bargaining chip from Pakistan. This action is significant more for this reason than the “war on terror,” or the war in general in Afghanistan. I’m sure that had Pakistan been more predisposed, this could easily have happen long before now. This is a concession of realpolitik, not a momentous moment–except for the media and all of the Americans who think this brings “closure.” ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/112 "2011-05-02T05:46:43Z")
This Reuters [story](http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Senior+official+Pakistan+confirms+Laden/4707430/story.html)says it was a joint US-Pakistan operation. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/113 "2011-05-02T05:46:59Z")
Interesting. Wonder how they navigated the air space issue if helicopters were used. According to Yahoo news the CIA have suspected for years that the locale may have been his lair. According to CNN World (can’t link from iPad) it was a joint operation. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/114 "2011-05-02T05:53:23Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > It jives with the recently building tension between the State dept. and the Pakistani government. It seems that the U.S. is close to losing its patience, and this was probably an important bargaining chip from Pakistan. That’s possible. If it’s true there was information from Pakistani intelligence despite its ties to fundamentalism over the years, then somebody’s calculations changed. > [@](#): > > I’m sure that had Pakistan been more predisposed, this could easily have happen long before now. Also very possible since he was probably hanging out there for the last five years. > [@](#): > > This is a concession of realpolitik, not a momentous moment–except for the media and all of the Americans who think this brings “closure.” I think you’re probably underplaying this and misunderstanding the mood of the people who are celebrating. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/115 "2011-05-02T05:56:28Z")
Hard to tell. Maybe it’s back tracking by Pakistan to show they were in on it all along? What is clear is that certain elements of their intelligence department had been protecting him. Something clearly changed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/116 "2011-05-02T06:04:32Z")
How much does losing bin Laden at this point actually hurt al-Qaeda? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/117 "2011-05-02T06:09:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How much does losing bin Laden at this point actually hurt al-Qaeda? They certainly aren’t going to throw in the towel just because of this. They’re organized more horizontally than vertically. (Isn’t that the whole idea of a “cell”?) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/118 "2011-05-02T06:10:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How much does losing bin Laden at this point actually hurt al-Qaeda? Probably nothing but who cares. We got him. He’s dayed. I’d like to think that he was involved in the financing side of it and this interrupted that process. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/119 "2011-05-02T06:15:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How much does losing bin Laden at this point actually hurt al-Qaeda? It hurts their image, maybe. He can’t have had much involvement (possibly zero) in the organization- if there really is one now. At one time it was centralized under him, but these days if you’re an Islamic nutjob terrorist and want to kill people, you get your friends together, do whatever you’re going to do, and say you’re Al Qaeda in [Your Region]. I don’t think there’s much more to it than that. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/120 "2011-05-02T06:22:57Z")
I wonder if we will ever know the full story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437.md?page=7)