# Osama bin Laden is Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437 "2011-05-02T02:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/121 "2011-05-02T06:41:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It hurts their image, maybe. He can’t have had much involvement (possibly zero) in the organization- if there really is one now. At one time it was centralized under him, but these days if you’re an Islamic nutjob terrorist and want to kill people, you get your friends together, do whatever you’re going to do, and say you’re Al Qaeda in [Your Region]. I don’t think there’s much more to it than that. So we just killed the Ray Kroc of terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/122 "2011-05-02T06:43:13Z")
Abottabad is apparently a military town and it appears that the mansion he was killed in was close to the Pakistan Military Academy : the Pakistani equivalent to West Point. It stretches credulity to believe that OBL would have chosen this place to hide. I am wondering if he was under some kind of house arrest by Pakistani intelligence but if so why did it require such a big firefight to get him. I have to say this whole story is pretty strange, especially the location. Incidentally someone apparently [twittered](http://venturebeat.com/2011/05/01/twitter-user-live-blogged-about-raid-on-bin-laden-without-knowing-what-it-was/)about the OBL raid without obviously knowing it at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/123 "2011-05-02T06:51:18Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Incidentally someone apparently [twittered](http://venturebeat.com/2011/05/01/twitter-user-live-blogged-about-raid-on-bin-laden-without-knowing-what-it-was/)about the OBL raid without obviously knowing it at the time. Also fascinating because this would seem to be proof that the raid happened on Sunday (giving allowances for the time difference), not last week. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/124 "2011-05-02T07:08:48Z")
In the president’s speech he says it happened Sunday, the plan started a week ago but the prez didn’t give the green light until Sunday. All the early reports of a week ago, were apparently wrong. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/125 "2011-05-02T07:28:50Z")
ABC and CNN are reporting that bin Laden has already been buried at sea. That does seem like an elegant solution to the issue, and now there can be no tomb/shrine. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/126 "2011-05-02T07:58:54Z")
At the end of the day, this makes for good propaganda but does nothing to actually make Westerners safe from retribution by their victims. Osama bin Laden was not some bizarre creature from another world - he was the product of Western imperialism in the Middle East. Until said imperialism ceases, there will be no end to individuals willing to carry our asymmetrical warfare against the aggressors. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/127 "2011-05-02T08:06:19Z")
This is funnier bullshit than is normal from Commissar. Anybody even partially versed in the history of the region knows that Bin Laden is the product of Russia’s aggression against Afghanistan. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/128 "2011-05-02T08:25:25Z")
Good news. Even if it makes little practical difference to the operation of AQ it’s a significant PR and morale boost to the West. Not being able to get him was a severe embarrassment to US and a threat to their image of military dominance. And I’m sure that American soldiers everywhere will be walking a little taller from now on. Just don’t celebrate too hard. I’ve read reports of crowds outside the Whitehouse chanting ‘USA, USA’, an image that immediately makes me think of the horrible celebrations in Arab countries after 911. That’s not a comparison I’m comfortable with. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/129 "2011-05-02T08:32:58Z")
It’s also an absurd comparison. Cheering for an operation that brought about the death of a mass murdering terrorist is only analogous to cheering to a terrorist act of mass murder in that both have cheering involved. It’s a bit like saying that a fireman and a fire are equivalent because both a blaze and a fireman’s axe can seriously fuck up wood paneling. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/130 "2011-05-02T08:56:29Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > It’s also an absurd comparison. Cheering for an operation that brought about the death of a mass murdering terrorist is only analogous to cheering to a terrorist act of mass murder in that both have cheering involved. It’s a bit like saying that a fireman and a fire are equivalent because both a blaze and a fireman’s axe can seriously fuck up wood paneling. To some Obama is in charge of the largest Muslim murdering force on the planet, and they would celebrate if he was killed. Your view is not the only way to view these events, and crassly celebrating someone else’s death in public leaves you open to looking like an asshole. I thought the US was supposed to be better than that? ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/131 "2011-05-02T08:59:04Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > To some Obama is in charge of the largest Muslim murdering force on the planet, and they would celebrate if he was killed. And yet to others, he’s a muslim himself. I’m still waiting for M. Night Shyamalan’s reveal. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/132 "2011-05-02T09:03:34Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > To some Obama is in charge of the largest Muslim murdering force on the planet, and they would celebrate if he was killed. Cheering over the death of a political leader would _still_ be different from cheering over terrorist attacks directed at office buildings filled with civilians. > [@Baboonanza](#): > > Your view is not the only way to view these events, and crassly celebrating someone else’s death in public leaves you open to looking like an asshole. No, my view is the correct way, however. Of course you can play the “Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, maaaaan!” card, but it’s not really that useful of a gambit. Celebrating the death of a mass murdering terrorist may make you look like an “asshole” to people who aren’t terribly brilliant. I don’t see any real reason to lose sleep over such folks’ opinions, however. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/133 "2011-05-02T09:05:12Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > So, who’s in charge of Al Qaeda now? They certainly must have planned for this contingency. That’s a pretty meaningless question. There is no such thng as Al-Qaeda, in the sense of an organisation. Any bunch of ragtag fundamentalists can blow shit up and claim to be part of “Al-Qaeda”. It’s not like Bin Laden was sitting in cave like Dr Evil telling people where to go and what to do. It’s like pretending that taking out Colonel Sanders would shut down the world’s KFCs. (If he was still alive.) ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/134 "2011-05-02T09:11:52Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Exactly, 10 years overdue. Bush was president for 8 years and failed to catch the bastard, and in Obama’s third year in office he’s killed. > > Not saying that’s a fair characterization, but that’s how I’d spin it if I was the Democrats. Certainly it’s what the Republicans would do if the situation were reversed. I just mean…I don’t think Obama had anything to do with it…in the sense that the shouldn’t get full credit. Not with the way intelligence works. Or maybe. I don’t know. Maybe Bush had the opportunity (as some claim) and didn’t go for it. Still – just seems odd to give Obama credit for something our CIA, military, and special ops carried out. Part of me wished for a trial. but - people have peace. Unfortunately, the idealism lives on. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/135 "2011-05-02T09:14:25Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > At the end of the day, this makes for good propaganda but does nothing to actually make Westerners safe from retribution by their victims. Osama bin Laden was not some bizarre creature from another world - he was the product of Western imperialism in the Middle East. Until said imperialism ceases, there will be no end to individuals willing to carry our asymmetrical warfare against the aggressors. It isn’t about being safe. It’s about healing. It’s about…keeping face. edit: Don’t blame Osama’s crimes on the West. Seriously. Have a little respect. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/136 "2011-05-02T09:42:22Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > The only reason I agree is because we shan’t bring ourselves to their level. However, if anyone’s naked and beaten corpse deserves to be impaled on a spike in front of the White House, it is Osama bin Laden’s. There’s an obvious better candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/137 "2011-05-02T10:39:02Z")
The whole thing will be interesting on how what plays out now. First of all Mr Bush said, if the Taliban surrendered Bin Laden, there would be no invasion. OK we spent 10 years looking for Bin Laden in a place he wasn’t. Yeah he might have been in Afghanistan for awhile, but still. In the end it was Pakistan that was shielding it. The man was living a few miles from a big Pakistani military base, means at least there was tacit approval from some element of Pakistan. Which means, Pakistan knew and didn’t care or they didn’t know. Great feeling for a nation with nukes, that can be duped so easily. By getting rid of the body so quickly they just screwed up and we now have another “is he really dead,” thing on our hands, like with “Hitler is living in South America” thing. So now can we leave Afghanistan, as there is no reason to be there? It was clearly stated we didn’t care about the Taliban regime but merely Bin Laden. So that’s the first issue to address. Second is how good is Pakistan as an ally? Either by willful malice or neglect? Last what was Bin Laden doing these last years? Planning or nothing? In that case how much of a master mind was he? Or was he merely the bankroll for smarter, not as famous people? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/138 "2011-05-02T10:39:43Z")
I’m also uncomfortable with cheering like a sports game even at this persons death. I do not dispute that he deserved to die. But cheering still seems a bit … wrong. I understand why people will do it. Yes, his death is more symbolic than anything else. But symbols matter. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/139 "2011-05-02T11:07:39Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Cheering over the death of a political leader would _still_ be different from cheering over terrorist attacks directed at office buildings filled with civilians. > > No, my view is the correct way, however. Of course you can play the “Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, maaaaan!” card, but it’s not really that useful of a gambit. Celebrating the death of a mass murdering terrorist may make you look like an “asshole” to people who aren’t terribly brilliant. I don’t see any real reason to lose sleep over such folks’ opinions, however. And that’s why America will always be a terrorist target. Unless people understand that peace requires turning the other cheek and being the ‘better man’ sometimes you are doomed to an unending spiral or mutual antagonization. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/140 "2011-05-02T11:12:25Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > And that’s why America will always be a terrorist target. Unless people understand that peace requires turning the other cheek and being the ‘better man’ sometimes you are doomed to an unending spiral or mutual antagonization. Oh what a load of crap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437.md?page=8)