# Osama bin Laden is Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437 "2011-05-02T02:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/161 "2011-05-02T14:04:52Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > bin Laden, as we knew him, was the product of us putting our military in Saudi Arabia during Gulf War I and leaving it there (despite promises not to do so.) OBL did not even want the US to be in SA _temporarily_ during Gulf War I, and I would like a citation, please, for this promise you mention. Even if we made such a promise it was superceded by invitation of the SA government. Furthermore, even if the US had not set foot in SA I think it is likely that Israel’s mere exisitence would have been enough to incite OBL to his life of terror. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/162 "2011-05-02T14:19:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > . > > Eisenhower gets credit for winning the campaign in Europe during WWII, but he didn’t actually shoot anyone or aim any howitzers or drive any tanks. Bad analogy. Eisenhower was active in planning and execution of the campaign. Deservedly he, rather than Roosevelt or Truman, got the credit. Having said that it’s perfectly natural that some of the glory should reflect on the incumbent. I’m also pleased to see that Obama kept Clinton and Bush in the loop beforehand as those Presidents too fought the good fight against terror whilst in office. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/163 "2011-05-02T14:20:11Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Folks, note that the comments come from **Commissar** , friend of Kim Jong Il, supporter of Khaddafi, lover of dictatorships and mass murder. DNFTT. DNFTT (calling someone a troll) is not appropriate for this forum. Save it for the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/164 "2011-05-02T14:21:14Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Agreed. I mean, I believe it most likely happened, but this was really a softball to the conspiracy-minded. I think we can be sure it he’s dead. If not, he’ll be on video in a week with a copy of that day’s New York Times. You can bet on that. How much of a blow would that be to U.S. credibility? Obama isn’t going to risk that unless they are sure. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/165 "2011-05-02T14:21:17Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Bad analogy. Eisenhower was active in planning and execution of the campaign. Deservedly he, rather than Roosevelt or Truman, got the credit. You don’t think Obama might have been heavily involved in the planning and execution of a military operation on the soil of a foreign sovereign state? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/166 "2011-05-02T14:25:02Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > OBL did not even want the US to be in SA _temporarily_ during Gulf War I, > and I would like a citation, please, for this promise you mention. Even if > we made such a promise it was superceded by invitation of the SA government. Well duh, but he might have gotten over after a decade if we had left. My cite: Wright, Lawrence, _The Looming Tower_. > [@colonial](#): > > Furthermore, even if the US had not set foot in SA I think it is likely that > Israel’s mere exisitence would have been enough to incite OBL to his > life of terror. Wild speculation based on nothing, means nothing, adds nothing to the discussion. Along the lines of ‘what if Nazis had cavalry mounted on t-rexes.’ Cool story bro. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/167 "2011-05-02T14:29:31Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Sheer speculation, but it probably boils down to our relations with Pakistan. For some reason, the Bush administration trusted Pakistan, and/or was extremely wary of pissing them off. For some reason, the Obama administration flipped 180 degrees on both counts: we can’t trust them, and screw them. We’re going in. > > So I think we can stop pretending that Pakistan is a “strategic ally in the war on terror”. Relations between the U.S. and Pakistan are more complex than that. Al Qaeda was a declared enemy of the civilian government, since they tried to kill ex-President Musharraf and they did kill Benazir Bhutto, but their were still some ties between AQ and Pakistan’s intelligence services and it IS hard to believe nobody in Pakistan knew bin Laden was holed up where he was. I do think that if the pro-U.S. or U.S.-tolerant parts of the government knew, they would have said something. The Pakistani government is fractious and different groups within it have different purposes. But I do think the Obama administration was less trusting of Pakistan (and don’t forget Musharraf, who Bush seemed to trust or think was crucial, is gone now) and felt that Pakistan and Afghanistan were more interconnected than the Bush administration seemed to. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/168 "2011-05-02T14:54:31Z")
“Do you see Larry! Do you see what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass! Do you see what happens!” ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/169 "2011-05-02T14:55:48Z")
Well, there goes my hope of thinking today’s Canadian election will get the slightest bit of coverage on CNN … ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/170 "2011-05-02T15:04:14Z")
As I said in the Pit thread, I really don’t like all this celebrating. It’s a solemn occasion, and we shouldn’t be dancing on the guy’s grave and acting like our team just won the Super Bowl. Good riddance, ObL, but I’m not in a celebratory mood over this thing. ---
**Author:** ![biddee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@biddee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biddee)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/171 "2011-05-02T15:22:52Z")
Interesting that [this](http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_nuclear-hellstorm-if-osama-bin-laden-is-caught-or-killed-al-qaeda_1535969) article appeared just 5 days before his death… ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/172 "2011-05-02T15:26:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As I said in the Pit thread, I really don’t like all this celebrating. It’s a solemn occasion, and we shouldn’t be dancing on the guy’s grave and acting like our team just won the Super Bowl. Good riddance, ObL, but I’m not in a celebratory mood over this thing. What is really weird is that to my students (16-18), it’s a non-event. Some guy that’s supposed to be really bad died. It doesn’t mean anything to them. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/173 "2011-05-02T15:31:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You don’t think Obama might have been heavily involved in the planning and execution of a military operation on the soil of a foreign sovereign state? :dubious: Good God, no! I would hope any competent President would leave it to the experts. What expertise would Obama have on the planning and execution of military operations? He’s a politician. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/174 "2011-05-02T15:37:38Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Good God, no! I would hope any competent President would leave it to the experts. What expertise would Obama have on the planning and execution of military operations? He’s a politician. He may not have formulated the plan, but he definitely approved it. In fact, he may have been chosen between several possible actions. That’s what being in charge means - making the ultimate decision. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/175 "2011-05-02T15:39:13Z")
Some other details I found interesting: [CNN reports [as of the 8:52 a.m. Eastern update] that the mission was intended to kill bin Laden, not to capture or kill him.](http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/02/obama-to-make-statment-tonight-subject-unknown/?hpt=T1&iref=BN1) However [ABC reports that bin Laden was asked to surrender, and was shot dead after he refused (it’s not clear from the wording if they mean he verbally refused or kept shooting or what have you).](http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/inside-operation-brought-osama-bin-laden/story?id=13506413&page=2) He was shot once in the head, and shot a second time to make sure he was dead. CNN said [at 7:30 Eastern) that there are photographs of him, but the government has not decided if they will be released. ABC also has this to report on DNA analysis to confirm it’s him: > [@](#): > > The Americans took Bin Laden’s body into custody after the firefight, taking it back to Afghanistan by helicopter, and confirmed his identity. His DNA matched DNA taken from a sister who had died of brain cancer in Boston. Her brain had been preserved in case it was needed to confirm Bin Laden’s DNA. A U.S. official said Bin Laden was later buried at sea in accordance with Islamic practice. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/176 "2011-05-02T15:43:26Z")
I put this link in the MPSIMS thread, but I’ll put it here too: [http://www.yasrsly.com/obamas-speech-hes-dead-gif/511331/](http://www.yasrsly.com/obamas-speech-hes-dead-gif/511331/) Now that would have been dramatic Mr President! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/177 "2011-05-02T15:52:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Some other details I found interesting: > > [CNN reports [as of the 8:52 a.m. Eastern update] that the mission was intended to kill bin Laden, not to capture or kill him.](http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/02/obama-to-make-statment-tonight-subject-unknown/?hpt=T1&iref=BN1) This is obviously a typo and whatever the original statement was seems to be gone from your link. What’s it supposed to say? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/178 "2011-05-02T15:53:17Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Agreed. I mean, I believe it most likely happened, but this was really a softball to the conspiracy-minded. The conspiracy-minded ought to be ignored. They do not think rationally anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/179 "2011-05-02T15:56:54Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > This is obviously a typo and whatever the original statement was seems to be gone from your link. What’s it supposed to say? I said what I meant to, but the emphasis might be unclear: the intent of the mission was to _kill_ bin Laden, not capture _or_ kill him. The update is still there if you scroll down far enough: > [@](#): > > [Updated 8:52 a.m. ET] The operation targeting Osama bin Laden was designed and executed as an operation to kill him, rather than to take him alive, a U.S. government official tells CNN. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437/180 "2011-05-02T16:02:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I said what I meant to, but the emphasis might be unclear: the intent of the mission was to _kill_ bin Laden, not capture _or_ kill him. The update is still there if you scroll down far enough: Why are you adding the ‘or kill’? The update you quoted only talks about taking him alive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/580437.md?page=10)