# Oscar Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 27, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286 "2004-01-27T14:42:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/21 "2004-01-27T20:08:08Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > Supporting Actress: Holly Hunter. This will be the only award for Mystic River. Holly Hunter was nominated for _Thirteen_. Are you thinking of Marcia Gay Harden? I think we’ll see a double win for RotK in Best Picture and Best Director, not because of that film in particular, but because of the achievement of all three films being considered. They’ll possibly also pull out Best Adapted Screenplay. Although Sofia Coppola is the first American woman to be nominated for Best Director, I doubt she’ll win it. I expect Academy voters will think she’s too young. Look for her to win Best Original Screenplay, though. I gasped in surprise and gratification that Johnny Depp was nominated for Best Actor, but I agree that Bill Murray looks to be a lock for it. I was also pleased to see Keisha Castle-Hughes nominated, but I don’t think the Academy is ready to give a Best Actress statuette to a 14yo. Diane Keaton has already won once, albeit over 30 years ago, so it looks like we’ll see Charlize Theron resplendent in her best “I’m not really ugly or fat” outfit take the stage. In the words of comedian Donnell Rawlings, “ugly is the new retarded” for actresses seeking Oscars. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/22 "2004-01-27T20:28:28Z")
I haven’t seen _Seabiscuit_ or _Master & Commander_, but I agree that _ROTK_ will probably take Best Picture. Sean Astin did get rather screwed, just like I thought Andy Serkis was screwed last year. Of the movies for Best Supporting Actor, I’ve only seen Mystic River, and Tim Robbins wasn’t that great (IMO). Bill Murray deserves the Oscar for “Lost in Translation”, because the movie depended entirely on his and Scarlett Johanssen’s roles and how much we gave a damn about their characters, and they pulled it off flawlessly. (Johanssen should have been nominated, but there’s really no question that Charlize Theron deserves that one. _Monster_ is a so-so movie, but her performance is that good.) Sofia Coppola should probably get the Best Original Screenplay nod; the Academy can then consider her officially absolved for turning in the most inexcusably bad acting job in the history of cinema. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/23 "2004-01-27T21:43:10Z")
> [@Amanita](#): > > Holly Hunter was nominated for _Thirteen_. Are you thinking of Marcia Gay Harden? Nope, I was thinking of Holly Huntar, but I didn’t have my head screwed on tightly enough. So change that to ‘Thirteen’. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/24 "2004-01-27T22:04:19Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > Jackson will get a box full of technical awar5ds too, making the total 8. Individual films are not nominated for technical awards. Technical awards are given for inventions or improvements in motion picture equipment or processes, not films. And the scientific and technical awards are given at an earlier, separate ceremony. Categories such as sound (i.e., sound mixing), sound editing (i.e., the creation of sound effects), cinematography, and editing are artistic awards, not technical awards. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/25 "2004-01-27T22:21:25Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Has any other movie won best pic with no acting noms? Wings (1927), _Grand Hotel_ (1933), _An American in Paris_ (1951), _The Greatest Show on Earth_ (1952), _Around the World in Eighty Days_ (1956), _Gigi_ (1958), _The Last Emperor_ (1987), _Braveheart_ (1995). ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/26 "2004-01-27T22:39:24Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Wings (1927), _Grand Hotel_ (1933), _An American in Paris_ (1951), _The Greatest Show on Earth_ (1952), _Around the World in Eighty Days_ (1956), _Gigi_ (1958), _The Last Emperor_ (1987), _Braveheart_ (1995). One more: _All Quiet on the Western Front_ (1929-30). > [@](#): > > Technical awards are given for inventions or improvements in motion picture equipment or processes, not films Generally speaking, that’s true. But _Gone With the Wind_ did win a technical achievement award (for Don Musgrave). > [@](#): > > _DoctorJ says:_ the Academy can then consider her officially absolved for turning in the most inexcusably bad acting job in the history of cinema. Of course she had an excuse–she wasn’t a professionally trained actress–and even then, it was 10 times the performance of John Leguizamo’s in _Moulin Rouge!_ (aka The Worst Cinematic Performance of the Last Half-Century). ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/27 "2004-01-27T22:47:42Z")
I’m generally happy with the nominations. I knew _Return of the King_ would get a pile of nominations. It wasn’t on my top 5 of the year (although I did like it a lot), I suppose it’s worthy of best picture taking into account all 3 films. _Seabiscuit_ was a fine movie but I liked _In America_ and _21 Grams_ better. Other than that, best picture is fine by me. Johnny Depp made _Pirates_, and Bill Murray was impressive in _Lost in Translation_, but in my opinion, Sean Penn had the performance of the year, hands down. I don’t think he’ll win though. I think it’s closer in best actress than most people think. Ms. Theron did a hell of a job in _Monster_ and is well, well, worthy of her nomination but Naomi Watts acted her ass off in _21 Grams_. Personally, I think it’s a toss up but the award will go to Ms. Theron i’d wager. Oh, I’m pleasantly surprised with Keisha Castle-Hughes’ nomination. That was some fine acting. Best supporting actor is a hell of a category and is pretty wide open. Having seen all the movies in this (and most other) category(ies) I would be hard pressed to pick a favorite. If i were forced, I’d flip a coin between Tim Robbins and Benicio Del Toro. But then there’s Djimon Hounsou who also did a fine job. Screw it, i can’t pick a favorite. Five very fine performances, a very strong category. Best supporting actress should go to Renee Zellweger. It was my favorite performance in this category. Marcia Gay Harden and Holly Hunter did very well as did the other two, but this one is all Renee. Speaking of Cold Mountain, I thought it was a fine movie, but was less than impressed by Nicole Kidman’s performance. This movie was all Jude and Renee, with some good performances by smaller actors. Also, not being nominated for best picture, I was happy with. Good, not Academy Award worthy. In the Best Director category, Sofia and Clint were nominated in the wrong year. This one, I am reasonably confident, will go to Peter Jackson. Less Detail for the rest, Foreign Film - Only seen a couple of these, but I really really liked The Barbarian Invasions, I’ll go with this one. Adapted Screenplay - LOTR:ROTK Original Screenplay - Lost in Translation Animated - the only person on the planet who didn’t like Finding Nemo; I much prefered Triplets. Art Direction - Girl With the Pearl Earing Documentary - The Fog of War Give the rest to Return of the King. Never been all that fond of short films, don’t know why, so i haven’t seen any of them. 21 Grams not nominated for editing? come on! ---
**Author:** ![Treviathan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/838e76/32.png) [@Treviathan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treviathan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/28 "2004-01-27T23:16:20Z")
I’m going to go against the grain and say that _Lost in Translation_ will win Best Picture. While I keep hearing that voters “are waiting until _Return of the King_ to honour the entire trilogy,” I don’t buy it. I think maybe it’s just that ROTK doesn’t resonate with the older members of the Hollywood establishment. And younger voters might want to ally themselves with the more “hip” (I mean, it’s got music from My Bloody Valentine on the soundtrack!) _Lost in Translation_, which so far hasn’t inspired any fantasy conventions or Halloween costumes. Plus, it’s possible that ROTK and _Master and Commander: The Most Awkward Title in the History of Cinema_ may split the voters who like bombastic Hollywood epics right in two. As an aside, wouldn’t it have been cool to see Bill Murray nominated in the Best Song category for his karaoke rendition of “More Than This”? Can covers even _be_ nominated? ---
**Author:** ![SpartanDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@SpartanDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpartanDC)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/29 "2004-01-27T23:54:03Z")
How an actress can carry on her shoulders half the weight of a movie that was nominated for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Original Screenplay and Best Actor and NOT get nominated is beyond me. Yeah, yeah, I know that the production company was trying to push for Best Supporting Actress cause her chances would be better, and how she had two great performances caused the vote to be split, but _come on_, Scarlett Johansson not getting nominated for Lost In Translation is just ridiculous. Plus, she’s _really_ hot. 😉 Of course, nominating her for Best Supporting Actress would be absurd, and she would lose to Charlize Theron for Best Lead Actress, but she still deserves the recognition. That’s the only major qualm I have. Astin turned in an Oscar-worthy performance, but based on what I’ve seen and read, so did all five of the other nominees. Someone has to get left out. Only because he was in the biggest movie of the year are so many complaining. Well, now I have to get to work on seeing all five nominees. I’ve only seen ROTK and Lost In Translation so far. ---
**Author:** ![Mariemarie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@Mariemarie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mariemarie)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/30 "2004-01-28T00:23:08Z")
A big juicy lump of lump crab on top of a filet minon (broiled to medium rare, no more), resting on a bed of steamed asparagus, and drizzled with bernaise. Garnish with lemon wedges, serve with, I don’t know, what kind of wine would you serve with this? It would need to keep up with the filet without overpowering the crab. What do you think? What? ---
**Author:** ![Cosmopolitan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Cosmopolitan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cosmopolitan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/31 "2004-01-28T00:56:53Z")
Re: **MarieMarie** ’s post: Um… Am I missing some joke? I’ve never used the ‘confused’ smiley, but here ya go: 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Bren\_Cameron\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@Bren\_Cameron\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bren_Cameron_1)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/32 "2004-01-28T02:14:08Z")
> [@Cosmopolitan](#): > > Re: **MarieMarie** ’s post: Um… Am I missing some joke? > > I’ve never used the ‘confused’ smiley, but here ya go: 😕 Veal Oscar. > **[Home](https://www.foodnetwork.com/)** Mmmmm… ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/33 "2004-01-28T02:18:34Z")
I’m grumpy that Kill Bill wasn’t anywhere. I know I’m in the minority, but i think it was the only important movie this year, and perhaps one of the most important movies of the last decade or so. Good to see Lost in Translation getting recognition thought. ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/34 "2004-01-28T03:38:28Z")
Really hoping for a ROTK sweep here, though if Lost in Translation wins either Best Picture or Best Director, I won’t complain (if it wins both, on the other hand, I’ll be rather irate ;)). Pleased as punch about the nominations for Keisha Castle-Hughes and Johnny Depp, both of whom gave great performances that I never expected to receive Academy attention. I’ve got my fingers crossed for Bill Murray, whose work in LiT was nothing short of brilliance. It’s unfortunate that Scarlett Johannsen was snubbed, but I’m willing to overlook that simply for the coolness that is Keisha’s nomination. Finding Nemo deserves the Animated win, if only because Pixar has been denied it for far too long. That Nemo boasts a great story, great characters, great script, great score, and absolutely incredible visuals as well should make this a lock. It’s a shame that Millennium Actress was ignored. I mean, really, Brother Bear? Puh-leez. ---
**Author:** ![Alzarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@Alzarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alzarian)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/35 "2004-01-28T06:18:05Z")
I want to go ahead and say that even though there has been a lot of buzz that this will be the year for “Lord of the Rings” to win Best Picture, I feel that the Oscar voters will actually give the award to Lost in Translation. “Lost in Translation” won the Golden Globe for best picture as well, you know. I just think that while there may be a large contigent of LOTR fans, they are outnumbered by those who aren’t as wowed. LOTR doesn’t really work as a movie on its own, but rather as part of a larger work. Also, how many best picture winners are remakes of earlier movies? (Though I hear the earlier animated feature wasn’t really all that good.) There is also the issue that many members of the Academy may not want to reward the big budget blockbuster this year, especially after the whole fiasco involving the banning of screeners. There may be a real push to reward the smaller movies. Plus Sophia Coppola is one of Hollywood’s own, and this may be her year to triumph. For the record, I think the one year when LOTR could have won the Oscar for Best Picture, and it wouldn’t have bothered me was in 2001, as I thought “Beautiful Mind” was overrated. I do, however, feel that “Chicago” was much stronger than LOTR2, and “Lost in Translation” is better than LOTR3. Anyway, LOTR will sweep the technical awards, so the fans should be happy. Now, any picks for Best Song? I do love that song from “A Mighty Wind” ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/36 "2004-01-28T08:49:52Z")
I’m surprised so many people favour _Lost in Translation_ for its screenplay. I thought Johannsen and particularly Murray crated compelling characters almost in spite of rather thin writing. The workaholic husband and bimbo actress struck me as cliche plot devices instead of real characters. I admire what Coppola did with the film’s pacing and cinematography, as well as how she captured the tension between the two leads. I suppose one could argue that a great screenplay consists of the words left unsaid along with the words on the page, but that’s another discussion. Of the nominated movies, I think both _The Barbarian Invasions_ and _Dirty Pretty Things_ are more substantial scripts, though I realize I am in the small minority in that opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/37 "2004-01-28T08:55:15Z")
> [@Alzarian](#): > > “Lost in Translation” won the Golden Globe for best picture as well, you know. There isn’t a single “Best Picture” category in the Golden Globes. There is “Best Comedy or Musical” and “Best Drama”. _Lost in Translation_ won for the former, _The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King_ won for the latter. > [@](#): > > Anyway, LOTR will sweep the technical awards, so the fans should be happy. **Alzarian** , please see my first post above. Films are not nominated for technical awards. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/38 "2004-01-28T10:56:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I suppose one could argue that a great screenplay consists of the words left unsaid along with the words on the page, but that’s another discussion. Actually, I think that was really important here, so I’m gonna digress. I give Coppola a lot of credit for not writing more than she had to. I’m a writer, so this may sound crazy, but she didn’t feel the need to fill up the space in the movie with words, or make the characters say things that could be shown in other ways. A number of important moments in the movie are wordless, and many of the scenes that really establish what’s going on have no dialogue, just Japan in the background. I thought that choice gave depth to Bob and Charlotte’s relationship and really got the loneliness aspects across. I was blown away by the fact that almost never in the movie do they explain their emotions. Charlotte says “I don’t know who I married” early on, Bob says “I’m totally lost” near the end (and they’re not even talking to each other), and that’s pretty much it as far as saying how they feel. And they don’t need to: you already you know how they feel due to the acting and choices in the direction and cinematography. Attempting to put what was going on into words would have resulted in too many cliches. I think writing can be about leaving space, and sometimes really important things get left unsaid. I love the movie because it managed to convey really deep emotions without spilling them verbally. > [@](#): > > The workaholic husband and bimbo actress struck me as cliche plot devices instead of real characters. Kelly wasn’t a plot device, she didn’t advance the action at all. She was a shallow character who threw Bob and Charlotte into greater relief. I’ll make the effort to see more of the big nominees, but _Lost in Translation_ is going to be my pick for Best Film anyway. Best I’ve seen in years. I don’t think it’ll win for that, but maybe it’ll get Original Screenplay. I was disappointed that Scarlett Johanssen got snubbed, but Bill Murray seems to be the favorite to win Best Actor. About the Best Actor thing: two comic actors? Bravo. Comedies don’t usually get that kind of respect (I guess not many deserve them), but a great comedy performance has to be at least as hard to pull off as a great drama performance. Err, what else… does anybody else remember Russell Crowe in _Virtuosity_? I’m starting to think he’s really a computer program created only to star in movies that make $300 million and clean up at Oscar time. 😛 At least he didn’t get another undeserved Best Actor nomination. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/39 "2004-01-28T14:52:36Z")
Tho I’ve already posted, I just had to tell DRM that he is not “the only person on the planet who didn’t like Finding Nemo” - I found the storyline dull, the characters the Disney usuals, and the lead voice actor incredibly annoying. The visuals were pretty tho. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286/40 "2004-01-28T16:26:42Z")
I’m also really excited about the Oscars this year, as I haven’t been in a long time. It’s nice to see such a wide variety of films in the nominations, and I’m especially pleased at the Best Actress nomination for _Whale Rider_. I think Theron has a lock on winning that one, but the fact that they nominated Keisha Castle-Hughes shows that they at least saw the great performance she put into it. Part of me is hoping for an ROTK sweep as well, but one category is foxing me pretty harshly. I follow Best Score every year pretty religiously. I make it a point to listen to all of the nominated scores (many years, I already own at least a few of them), and I’ve guessed the winner more often than not. Most years there’s one or two really standout entries, and a few which clearly won’t win. This year, not so. _Return of the King_ had a truly great score, but there may be some ambivalence there because Shore already won for _Fellowship_ two years ago. I would say that _RotK_ should win anyway, except for the fact that it’s got some stiff competition, in the form of some composers doing the best work they’ve done in a while. Thomas Newman’s score for _Finding Nemo_ is some standout material. It’s not Newman’s best work even, but it’s one of the best “kids’ movie” scores I’ve heard in a long time… mostly because it isn’t scored like a kids’ movie. Newman really captured the vast majesty of the ocean and the intimacy of the story as no other composer could here. James Horner’s music for _The House of Sand and Fog_ is flat-out the most original work he’s done in years. For the last hew years Horner (one of my old favorites) has been skating by, mostly plagarizing from his own previous work. _House of Sand and Fog_ recalls the days when Horner did original work like _Glory_ and _Sneakers_, in that the music is unlike anything he’s done before. And again, the music goes along perfectly with the film. Danny Elfman’s music for _Big Fish_ is just like Horner’s: the best work he’s done in some time. Elfman tends to stay the course on most of his movie scores; _Batman_ sounds much like _Men in Black_ which sounds much like _Planet of the Apes_. But when he stretches himself, such as with _Good Will Hunting_ or _Dolores Claiborne_, he can really do some wonderful work. _Big Fish_ is one of his outstanding scores, and it’s nice to see him at top form again. _Cold Mountain_ is the only one I don’t think stands much of a chance here. Yared’s done better than this (try _City of Angels_ on for size), and the music is good but not great. Still, 4 out of the 5 nominations for best original score are all ones I would say have a good chance of winning. If I had to make a prediction, I would say that _Return of the King_ stands a slightly better chance because it can ride the wave of publicity and hype the film is getting, but based on merit alone it’s really anyone’s game. Nearly _all_ of the music nominations deserve to win, because they’re all wonderful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscar-discussion/226286.md?page=3)