# Oscars 2017 thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 27, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905 "2017-02-27T01:12:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/201 "2017-02-27T17:57:52Z")
> [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > Actually, it’s pretty easy to explain. No conspiracy at all (i.e. Stone) > > As has been noted on this thread and elsewhere on the net, PW has two agents with duplicate sets of envelopes. As a checks & balance. The agent was supposed to hand Beatty/Dunaway his Best Picture envelope but by mistake handed his Best Actress envelope (the other agent had handed his BA envelope to Leo). That’s it. A mistake. > > The only question I and others should have is, why did it take so long for the mistake to be rectified. As the La La Land group began to take the stage the procedures should have been stopped immediately, long before the thank you speeches were given. Is it checks and balances? I assumed the reason for the two sets of envelopes was because the presenter might enter from stage left or stage right, and this allows them to collect the envelope either way. What they _should_ do is to communicate with each other which envelopes have been given out, so the counterpart can put away the unused duplicate. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/202 "2017-02-27T18:12:02Z")
[Academy Awards lists wrong person as dead in memorial tribute](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/entertainment/academy-awards-in-memoriam/) :smack::smack::smack: ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/203 "2017-02-27T18:31:06Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I wish I could find someone to give me the honest scoop on whether I really need to see the movie _Moonlight_ as much as all the critics insist I do, with comments about how it will still be a landmark of cinema 20 years from now, and so on. I just have this strong suspicion that the OTT raves are all about the Message that it promotes rather than its cinematic qualities. And I’ve already gotten the memo that gay people deserve equal rights and racism is bad, mmkay? What I’m interested in is movies that are critically acclaimed because of their inherent cinematic merits. > > Being an activism/message oriented movie is not always at cross purposes with being a great work of cinematic art, of course. _Do the Right Thing_ comes to mind, but then that’s the only example I can think of, so… I don’t see how anyone could think of _Moonlight_ as being an “activism/message” movie unless simply having a gay Black character makes it so. There is nothing about it that says “racism is bad” or “gay people deserve equal rights.” It’s like no one is saying that _Lion_ is a “message/activism” movie because “child poverty is bad.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/204 "2017-02-27T18:34:28Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > For me, “Moonlight” is not a message picture at all. It’s just a wonderful character study that, for me, packs a huge emotional wallop. That’s what I saw, too. I really didn’t come away with the sense I’d been preached to. I came away feeling I had been watching a brilliantly filmed story about a person. At the end of the movie I was emotionally invested in the characters, not a message. By way of comparison, “Hidden Figures,” now, that movie was a-preachin’. Which isn’t to say it isn’t a fine movie; it certainly is, with outstanding acting from every quarter. But it was a Movie With A Message from the first frame to the last. There’s nothing wrong with that, and it’s a message and story that should be heard, but it was in your face and simplistic. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/205 "2017-02-27T18:38:02Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > [Here is Sammy Davis Jr. calling the wrong name 50 years ago.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmmi9ksOtt4) > > “Wait until the NAACP hears about this!” > > An excellent recovery. What really strikes me about that clip is how short the thank you’s are (along with Sammy handling things beautifully). ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/206 "2017-02-27T18:52:30Z")
I hope I’m not the first to say this (anywhere, not just here): I have to give serious props to the producers of La La Land. It takes a lot of class and dignity to handle what happened as gracefully as they did. Well done, guys. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/207 "2017-02-27T18:55:59Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I wish I could find someone to give me the honest scoop on whether I really need to see the movie _Moonlight_ as much as all the critics insist I do, with comments about how it will still be a landmark of cinema 20 years from now, and so on. I just have this strong suspicion that the OTT raves are all about the Message that it promotes rather than its cinematic qualities. And I’ve already gotten the memo that gay people deserve equal rights and racism is bad, mmkay? What I’m interested in is movies that are critically acclaimed because of their inherent cinematic merits. > > Being an activism/message oriented movie is not always at cross purposes with being a great work of cinematic art, of course. _Do the Right Thing_ comes to mind, but then that’s the only example I can think of, so… It’s a good but not great movie to me. It’s definitely more of an ‘arty’ film (with some really good cinematography). And the message was fairly subtle. As referenced by others, it’s more of a character study / coming of age. I personally think Manchester By the Sea is going to be _the_ film remembered in 20 years as the cream of this year’s crop. Moonlight will definitely stand out though. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/208 "2017-02-27T19:42:27Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > He should’ve slapped her until she gave the right answer. Makes sense to me. “It’s _La La Land_ AND _Moonlight_!” ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/209 "2017-02-27T19:53:32Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > [Academy Awards lists wrong person as dead in memorial tribute](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/entertainment/academy-awards-in-memoriam/) :smack::smack::smack: At least PwC didn’t come up with that picture, and Warren Beatty didn’t announce it. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/210 "2017-02-27T20:07:49Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It’s a good but not great movie to me. It’s definitely more of an ‘arty’ film (with some really good cinematography). And the message was fairly subtle. As referenced by others, it’s more of a character study / coming of age. > > I personally think Manchester By the Sea is going to be _the_ film remembered in 20 years as the cream of this year’s crop. Moonlight will definitely stand out though. That and other posts here are reassuring, thanks. I have just seen so much stuff like [this tweet](https://twitter.com/ira/status/836113575198412802). I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of _Manchester By the Sea_ on Amazon Prime in early May. I have liked Casey Affleck since a little known movie he was in with Matt Damon called _Gerry_; and Kenneth Lonergan’s previous film _Margaret_ is one of my all-time favorites. ETA: > [@Rilchiam](#): > > I hope I’m not the first to say this (anywhere, not just here): I have to give serious props to the producers of La La Land. It takes a lot of class and dignity to handle what happened as gracefully as they did. Well done, guys. Well, except for that producer who knew they had lost but took advantage of the confusion to get a little speech in anyway. That was kind of shady. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/211 "2017-02-27T20:10:48Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I don’t see how anyone could think of _Moonlight_ as being an “activism/message” movie unless simply having a gay Black character makes it so. There is nothing about it that says “racism is bad” or “gay people deserve equal rights.” > > It’s like no one is saying that _Lion_ is a “message/activism” movie because “child poverty is bad.” I thought the message was “Google Earth is the most amazing thing ever!” > [@Rilchiam](#): > > I hope I’m not the first to say this (anywhere, not just here): I have to give serious props to the producers of La La Land. It takes a lot of class and dignity to handle what happened as gracefully as they did. Well done, guys. Does B’nai Brith have an award for _Mensch of the Year_? ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/212 "2017-02-27T20:15:35Z")
If these’s one thing I learned from this fiasco it’s that humans make horrible eye witnesses. I don’t know how many people swore up and down that Warren Beatty read the wrong winner and only changed their story when watching the replay to see that it was Dunaway that said “LaLa Land!” ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/213 "2017-02-27T20:21:23Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > ETA: > > Well, except for that producer who knew they had lost but took advantage of the confusion to get a little speech in anyway. That was kind of shady. :dubious: How did he know they had lost? Do winners and nominees know in advance who has won (and are sworn, on pain of death, to remain silent until the ceremony?) ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/214 "2017-02-27T20:31:47Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > :dubious: How did he know they had lost? Do winners and nominees know in advance who has won (and are sworn, on pain of death, to remain silent until the ceremony?) You could see the stagehands (with headsets) spreading the word, so he knew (he even says “We lost”) and wanted to grab those few seconds left to make his acknowledgments. [Here’s a play-by-play video annotation](http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2017/02/27/oscar_best_picture_mistake_video_annotated_and_reviewed.html?wpsrc=sh_all_mob_tw_top). ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/215 "2017-02-27T20:34:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > At the end of the movie I was emotionally invested in the characters, not a message. Just before the end I felt myself trying to mentally force Chiron to say something! Speak! Be courageous! YOU CAN DO IT! He was so silent I can’t remember getting that invested in a long time. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/216 "2017-02-27T20:38:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > According to this, Moonlight got as many Oscars as previous winners like Rocky, 12 years a slave, Casablanca and others: > > [http://www.goldderby.com/article/2014/oscars-12-years-a-slave-three-wins-academy-awards-history-news-13579086/](http://www.goldderby.com/article/2014/oscars-12-years-a-slave-three-wins-academy-awards-history-news-13579086/) > > But there are Best Picture winners with fewer Oscars than that: > > Captain William Bligh: “Mr. Christian!!!” This list omits **Spotlight** which won Best Picture last year with only one other Oscar–Original Screenplay. ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/217 "2017-02-27T21:05:15Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I have liked Casey Affleck since a little known movie he was in with Matt Damon called _Gerry_; and Kenneth Lonergan’s previous film _Margaret_ is one of my all-time favorites. Based on what you’ve said, you may be well past Oscar-level film appreciation, but go see Moonlight. Both as incentive and a warning, there are wonderful miracles of filmcraft in this film, but also unfortunate Hollywood-style miracles in the story. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/218 "2017-02-27T21:14:12Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > You could see the stagehands (with headsets) spreading the word, so he knew (he even says “We lost”) and wanted to grab those few seconds left to make his acknowledgments. [Here’s a play-by-play video annotation](http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2017/02/27/oscar_best_picture_mistake_video_annotated_and_reviewed.html?wpsrc=sh_all_mob_tw_top). Yup, great video. That guy, the one speaking French, knew he was straight up grifting, stealing time on national TV, but he just boldly did it anyway. I wonder what the repercussions have been, will be, for him among his peers? Saying your speech and then adding “we lost” doesn’t make it right. He was still consciously being more part of the problem than the solution. ETA: > [@eunoia](#): > > Based on what you’ve said, you may be well past Oscar-level film appreciation, but go see Moonlight. Both as incentive and a warning, there are wonderful miracles of filmcraft in this film, but also unfortunate Hollywood-style miracles in the story. Hmmm…that has my curiosity going. Thanks, I will definitely give it a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/219 "2017-02-27T21:14:13Z")
2016 Spotlight 2017 Moonlight 2018 Gaslight ? Maybe Gaslight: the Sean Spicer story 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/220 "2017-02-27T21:34:32Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Yup, great video. That guy, the one speaking French, knew he was straight up grifting, stealing time on national TV, but he just boldly did it anyway. I wonder what the repercussions have been, will be, for him among his peers? Saying your speech and then adding “we lost” doesn’t make it right. He was still consciously being more part of the problem than the solution. If you watch the [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KeOxeuiZjs)carefully he was called to speak and said no. The whole situation was so absurd anyway, it was best to roll with it. I don’t think he did anything wrong. BTW I laughed at the contrast between the second guy yammering on about dreams and the chaos unfolding behind him. Has anyone identified the guy with the headphones ? I think he was the person who should have intervened way sooner. I have re-watched the video at least half a dozen times and find it endlessly fascinating. I think I could easily watch a full-length documentary about this episode. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905.md?page=12)