# Oscars 2017 thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 27, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905 "2017-02-27T01:12:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/301 "2017-03-02T17:40:43Z")
I assume by “agent”, you mean “accountant”. And it doesn’t matter if the accountant’s boss was nearby; both he and she was the ones in charge of this account and understood the procedure. We’ve heard about this at least as far back as the year Marisa Tomei won. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/302 "2017-03-02T17:53:33Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Bill Simmons released a podcast yesterday with Jimmy Kimmel that is well worth a listen for anybody interested in this. It’s an hour long(!). TL;DL [https://soundcloud.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/ep-182-reliving-the-oscars-with-jimmy-kimmel-and-cousin-sal](https://soundcloud.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/ep-182-reliving-the-oscars-with-jimmy-kimmel-and-cousin-sal) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/303 "2017-03-02T17:55:47Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I assume by “agent”, you mean “accountant”. And it doesn’t matter if the accountant’s boss was nearby; both he and she was the ones in charge of this account and understood the procedure. We’ve heard about this at least as far back as the year Marisa Tomei won. Yes, accountant, thanks. And this assumes there is a procedure. There certainly should be. It’s easy to be a MMQB, and yes of course PWC screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/304 "2017-03-02T18:04:11Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Yes, accountant, thanks. And this assumes there is a procedure. There certainly should be. It’s easy to be a MMQB, and yes of course PWC screwed up. No, being a Monday morning quarterback would be opining on what Beatty and Dunaway should have done. We know in hindsight what they should have done but as I pointed out, they have at least some excuse because _La La Land_ was so widely expected to win anyway that it’s a bit rough to fault them for thinking that they were given the wrong card for the right movie. Faulting the accountants is different. It was _ **totally their freaking job** _ to make sure this was done right, and to immediately jump in and fix it if something went wrong. Otherwise they’re just a waste of space. Which, as it turned out, they were. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/305 "2017-03-02T18:17:57Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No, being a Monday morning quarterback would be opining on what Beatty and Dunaway should have done. We know in hindsight what they should have done but as I pointed out, they have at least some excuse because _La La Land_ was so widely expected to win anyway that it’s a bit rough to fault them for thinking that they were given the wrong card for the right movie. Faulting the accountants is different. It was _ **totally their freaking job** _ to make sure this was done right, and to immediately jump in and fix it if something went wrong. Otherwise they’re just a waste of space. Which, as it turned out, they were. Fair point. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/306 "2017-03-02T18:24:47Z")
This [piece](http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/03/pwc-accountants-froze-backstage)has the most detailed account of what happened behind the stage and it isn’t pretty. First of all there doesn’t seem to have been a clearcut procedure about what to do: > [@](#): > > Prior to the ceremony, Ruiz and Cullinan discussed the protocol for situations like these in an interview with the Huffington Post. “We would make sure that the correct person was known very quickly,” Cullinan said at the time. “Whether that entails stopping the show, us walking onstage, us signaling to the stage manager—that’s really a game-time decision, if something like that were to happen.” This is too vague. There should have been precise instructions for each person and it should have been rehearsed thoroughly. You can’t just leave such things for a “game-time decision” Not surprisingly in the actual event both Cullinan and Ruiz seem to have frozen: > [@](#): > > After La La Land was announced, both Cullinan and Ruiz—who had memorized the night’s winners list as an added security precaution—did nothing. > > Natoli happened to be standing by Ruiz at stage left during the best-picture portion, readying host Jimmy Kimmel for the night’s final bit. “We watched for about 10 more seconds, and during that entire time Martha was no more than five feet away from us,” he says. “When La La Land was announced, she did not try to get my attention, she did not say anything. And she’s supposed to have memorized the winners.” > > Another Oscars producer, John Esposito, told Natoli that Cullinan “was very low-key too, no urgency,” once they realized the wrong winner had been announced. They had Ruiz open her envelope to confirm that Moonlight was the real winner. Natoli then urged producers to push out the accountants to rectify the issue, a request that proved surprisingly difficult. “John was trying to get Brian to go onstage, and he wouldn’t go. And Martha wouldn’t go. We had to push them onstage, which was just shocking to me.” Natoli, aka Headphone Guy, was the stage manager and he bears some responsibility too. He should have insisted on a clear back-up plan from the PWC people and made sure it was thoroughly rehearsed. All this is common sense but when you take into account the Miss Universe debacle just a couple of years ago, a perfect wake-up call if there ever was one, the level of incompetence reaches mind-boggling proportions. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/307 "2017-03-02T18:30:54Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I agree: we should use spoiler tags if we talk about the plot. > > I can see someone having a very strict definition of “message movie” and thereby excluding _HoHW_, along with many other movies (and only admitting the most undeniable cases like _Wall-E_ or _Fruitvale Station_). What I can’t see is classifying \*Arrival \*and \*Zootopia \*as message movies, but drawing the line at \*HoHW \*(I haven’t seen _Hidden Figures_). I consider _HoHW_ the \*most \*blatantly axe-grinding of the three. **MovieMogul** , do you agree? > > ETA: If the “banks are bad, mmkay?” deal was just to establish motive, they wouldn’t have had the guys in the diner complaining about the banks, they wouldn’t have had the Texas Ranger (partner of Jeff Bridges) deliver that hamhanded line I quoted above, they wouldn’t have had the front and center graffiti in the opening shot of the movie. None of those was needed to establish motive and get the plot rolling. Yes, exactly. And I never said it was a blatant example in the first place, just one with a heavy undercurrent. My point was more that it was far more a “message movie” than _Moonlight_ is. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/308 "2017-03-02T21:00:18Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > This is too vague. There should have been precise instructions for each person and it should have been rehearsed thoroughly. You can’t just leave such things for a “game-time decision” Wow. Really, this explains everything. **They didn’t practice what to do if there was an error?** Why on earth would you not run a few drills and have a very clear idea what PRECISELY to do if this happens? That said, the fact the accountants are getting death threats is beyond ridiculous and into lunacy. It’s not as if Moonlight actually lost the award as the result of an error. Hell, if anything, both movvies will get a few more bucks out of the extra attention paid to this - it was a low-rated Oscars and this is sustaining interest. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/309 "2017-03-03T03:55:29Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > It’s an hour long(!). TL;DL > > [SoundCloud - Hear the world’s sounds](https://soundcloud.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/ep-182-reliving-the-oscars-with-jimmy-kimmel-and-cousin-sal) Not really – the relevant part starts around 4:00 and they’re pretty much wandering off on other topics from around 15:00 or so. No earthshaking revelations but it was interesting hearing Kimmel chatting about it. My favorite line about the two accountants – something along the lines of “these are not the people you want watching your six-year old around the pool”. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/310 "2017-03-03T04:35:41Z")
Was it already mentioned in this thread what a clusterfuck it would have been if the switcheroo had gone the other way? Ohhh man. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/311 "2017-03-03T06:09:41Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > First of all there doesn’t seem to have been a clearcut procedure about what to do: > This is too vague. There should have been precise instructions for each person and it should have been rehearsed thoroughly. You can’t just leave such things for a “game-time decision” Thanks for finding the info **Lantern**. This was my point all along, that without an established procedure and clearly defined responsibilities, PWC and the academy cannot rely on common sense and “do the right thing” to prevail. When the show is live and all the real stars are there, with all the glitz and glamor and bright lights and live TV, any reliance on ‘fix it’ or ‘do the right thing’ or ‘get it right’ is not a procedure at all, it is wishful thinking. The accountants, we now know, had their deer in the headlights moment and failed to act. A rehearsed procedure would not be a guarantee that the gaffe would’ve been handled better, but the likelihood of that would’ve been much better. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Faulting the accountants is different. It was _ **totally their freaking job** _ to make sure this was done right, and to immediately jump in and fix it if something went wrong. Otherwise they’re just a waste of space. Which, as it turned out, they were. In light of the new information, the above no longer is a fair point. While the accountants are not blameless, (and yes they could have handled it better (so too could Warren Beatty)), the majority of the responsibilities shifts away from the accountants and more firmly onto the PWC and the academy personnel in charge of the operations. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/312 "2017-03-03T06:10:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Wow. > > Really, this explains everything. **They didn’t practice what to do if there was an error?** > > Why on earth would you not run a few drills and have a very clear idea what PRECISELY to do if this happens? Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/313 "2017-03-03T06:41:37Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > In light of the new information, the above no longer is a fair point. While the accountants are not blameless, (and yes they could have handled it better (so too could Warren Beatty)), the majority of the responsibilities shifts away from the accountants and more firmly onto the PWC and the academy personnel in charge of the operations. I disagree, and I also disagree with the conclusion that this “explains everything”. It might explain _some_ things, might shift some of the blame to production management, but the fact remains with respect to the two accountants that it was their one and only critical job to do this right and to act immediately if it went wrong, and they failed at both. If their management lacked a sufficiently specific plan, they should at least have had one in their own minds, and at least been alert and doing their job instead of ogling the scenery. It sounds like they did neither. According to the account upthread, Cullinan and Ruiz – the only ones who knew the winner – apparently froze and did nothing when the wrong one was announced. I quite like the comment from the Kimmel interview about whether you’d let these two clowns watch your small children at poolside. You might not have a detailed specific plan for what to do in every possible contingency, but reasonable people charged with that duty would certainly stay alert and certainly have a Step 1: if a child falls in, you don’t stand around with your thumb up your ass, you go in immediately. You don’t need a more complicated plan. These two doofuses would have been asleep in the sun chairs. No, this wasn’t a life-and-death matter, but it was a pretty serious responsibility and their failure had major repercussions on how the most celebrated event in the whole entertainment industry ended, to the detriment of everyone involved. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/314 "2017-03-03T06:59:47Z")
Yeah, I mean: I guess it wasn’t their only job, because their job was also to hand the envelopes to the presenters and safeguard them until that time. But if they weren’t supposed to intervene in case of error, then there’s no reason to even teach them what the actual award winners’ names are. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/315 "2017-03-03T07:37:41Z")
Apparently some news source gave out the accountants’ home addresses and they’re getting death threats. They had to hire bodyguards. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/316 "2017-03-03T07:48:26Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > While the accountants are not blameless, (and yes they could have handled it better (so too could Warren Beatty)), the majority of the responsibilities shifts away from the accountants and more firmly onto the PWC and the academy personnel in charge of the operations. Keep in mind that Cullinan and Ruiz aren’t junior PWC employees. They are both partners and Cullinan in particular is a 30+year PWC veteran. He could and should have insisted on clear protocols. But yes it was also the responsibility of the organizers to prepare such protocols. The crux of the matter was whose responsibility it was to walk on stage if there was a mistake and what exactly they were supposed to do. That is an intimidating task which is why it should have been precisely defined and rehearsed. However even in the absence of clear protocols, Cullinan should have taken the initiative especially since it was his mistake with the envelopes that caused the problem in the first place. It was a test of his courage and leadership and he failed. So I would say the bulk of the blame falls on Cullinan but some of it also falls on the organizers for not having clearcut and properly rehearsed contingency plans. The other interesting aspect of this is the PR strategy after the fiasco. Natoli has been quite active blaming Cullinan and Ruiz but the latter have been silent, possibly on the instructions of PWC. I think that is a mistake both for the company and for them personally. They should talk to the media and issue a heartfelt apology. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/317 "2017-03-03T08:38:46Z")
Assuming the PWC employees knew who the stage manager was, and he knew that they knew this, then I can’t really fault him or the Academy generally for not practicing or having a specific plan, and just assuming that in the event an incorrect name was read, that one or both of the PWC people would immediately go tell the stage manager. Once they do that, it’s on him to take charge and sort it out. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/318 "2017-03-03T14:39:36Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I don’t believe there were any surprises all evening; those who won were the ones predicted to win. > [@Mixolydian](#): > > Doh! > [@gaffa](#): > > Holy shit! > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > OK, there was one surprise tonight. I think these are my favorite four posts ever on the SDMB. Sums it up quite nicely! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/319 "2017-03-03T14:52:52Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Keep in mind that Cullinan and Ruiz aren’t junior PWC employees. They are both partners and Cullinan in particular is a 30+year PWC veteran. He could and should have insisted on clear protocols. But yes it was also the responsibility of the organizers to prepare such protocols. This might have been linked to previously, but [The Wrap](http://www.thewrap.com/oscar-stage-manager-pwc-accountants-incompetence/) ran a piece in which one of the stage managers described exactly what happened, and even described a discussion the day before with the PwC accountants about what to do. > [@](#): > > "I [the stage manager] said, ‘If you know who the winner is, you don’t need to check with each other. You need to immediately go out and rectify the situation, ideally before the wrong winners get to the mic.’ And he [the PwC accountant] said, ‘OK, good, that’s what we thought.'” Remember, only the accountants knew the correct names, and it took them well over a minute to mention that there was an error. > [@](#): > > “As I was taking Matt’s wife to the side of the house [to free up her seat so Jimmy Kimmel could do a comic bit with Matt Damon], I heard John Esposito on my headset say, ‘Brian says he didn’t think they said the right winner. Can you have Martha check her envelope?’ That was the first time I heard anything about it, and it was probably a minute, or a minute and 15 seconds, from the time Faye announced the wrong winner.” In my opinion, the blame falls _entirely_ on the two PwC accountants. Edited to add, even though he’s supposed to have the winners memorized, he’s clearly unsure about whether the right name was called. First, he only had to memorize the names of 24 winners, and of that, the key one to memorize and probably the easiest would be the Best Picture winner. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905/320 "2017-03-03T17:27:36Z")
Plus he still had the Best Picture envelope…right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-2017-thread/780905.md?page=17)