# Oscars have new rules for best picture in 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 9, 2020, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127 "2020-09-09T01:29:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/81 "2020-09-11T15:50:30Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > More likely the song [The Mighty Quinn](https://genius.com/Manfred-mann-the-mighty-quinn-lyrics). He’s an Eskimo. That’s what I was referring to. [Dylan referred to Quinn as an Eskimo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinn_the_Eskimo_(Mighty_Quinn)) in the song because of Anthony Quinn’s role. in the movie. > [@](#): > > Dylan is widely believed to have derived the title character from actor [Anthony Quinn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Quinn)’s role as an Eskimo in the 1960 movie _[The Savage Innocents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Savage_Innocents)_ .[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinn_the_Eskimo_(Mighty_Quinn)#cite_note-4) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/82 "2020-09-11T15:52:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think you missed my link Yes, sorry. > [@Colibri](#): > > Dylan is widely believed to have derived the title character from actor [Anthony Quinn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Quinn)’s role as an Eskimo in the 1960 movie _[The Savage Innocents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Savage_Innocents)_ .[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinn_the_Eskimo_(Mighty_Quinn)#cite_note-4) That ties it together then, nice bit of movie trivia. On top of that confusion many people are positive Quinn was Greek. He embraced his association with Zorba, playing it on the stage after the movie, and was loved for it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/83 "2020-09-11T16:14:04Z")
Considering the number of ethnicities he played, Anthony Quinn could have satisfied the diversity requirements all by himself.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/84 "2020-09-11T16:41:09Z")
With respect to 2C, I’m wondering if the “entire crew” means everyone listed in the credits. Many movies that use a lot of CGI will have huge numbers of technicians from South or East Asia listed in the credits. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/85 "2020-09-11T17:43:04Z")
It wasn’t clear to me, but I’d imagine it’s either everyone listed in the credits, or everyone listed who was an employee of the production company (CGI and such things are customarily outsourced.) While I don’t mind this new rule in principle, applying it is going to get messy and might result in some absurd inclusions and exclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/86 "2020-09-11T18:03:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Considering the number of ethnicities he played, Anthony Quinn could have satisfied the diversity requirements all by himself.😉 Definitely. After all, everyone knows Quinn was Mexican: [Viva Zapata! - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viva_Zapata!). And French: [Lust for Life (1956 film) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lust_for_Life_(1956_film)). And Italian: [Wild Is the Wind - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Is_the_Wind). And Ukrainian: [The Shoes of the Fisherman - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shoes_of_the_Fisherman) And Arab: [The Message (1976 film) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Message_(1976_film)) And Libyan: [Lion of the Desert - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_of_the_Desert) And Malayan: [East of Sumatra - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_of_Sumatra) And Hun: [Attila (1954 film) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attila_(1954_film)) And Spanish: [Seven Cities of Gold (film) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Cities_of_Gold_(film)) And Mongol: [Marco the Magnificent - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_the_Magnificent) And Olympian: [Hercules and the Amazon Women - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_and_the_Amazon_Women) And Cheyenne: [The Plainsman - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Plainsman) And Chinese: [Island of Lost Men - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_Lost_Men) And Seminole: [Seminole (film) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seminole_(film)) And… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/87 "2020-09-11T18:05:36Z")
There are so few roles for Huns these days. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/88 "2020-09-11T18:47:24Z")
Well, maybe these new Academy rules will change all that! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/89 "2020-09-11T20:09:35Z")
To all of those saying that there shouldn’t be objective rules for an artistic award: Are you similarly up in arms about the requirements that a movie be released in theaters, and run in the LA area for at least two weeks? Surely, the geography of a movie’s release should have nothing at all to do with its artistic merits… and yet, they’ve been requiring that for ages. Of course, it’s also possible to have an artistic award with essentially no rules, like the Hugo, where if something is worthy of an award, they’ll figure out some category to fit it into, or even create a new category for it. But the MPAA wants to have rules for its award, so they have rules. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/90 "2020-09-11T22:10:55Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Anyone have any idea of how many of the past Best Picture winners or nominees would have been be excluded under these guidelines? Why does this matter? Since those rules didn’t exist back then, they didn’t try to follow them. If they did, they probably could’ve met the standards easily enough. The bar here is almost touching the ground. ---
**Author:** ![LLCoolL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/llcooll/32/3596_2.png) [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/91 "2020-09-12T05:28:16Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > That said, I’m sure the existing process is far from an objective analysis of quality (is there such a thing in art anyway?), so I don’t know that these new rules actually affect the objectivity in a meaningful way. It just tilts the subjectivity in a different direction. Excellent point. ---
**Author:** ![LLCoolL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/llcooll/32/3596_2.png) [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/92 "2020-09-12T05:30:26Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I’m sure the majority of films are made with no intention of being considered for Best Picture. Agreed. These changes will only impact the relatively small pct of “prestige” films aiming for Oscar contention in the first place. I doubt the next Transformers production will concern itself with meeting the new guidelines. ---
**Author:** ![LLCoolL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/llcooll/32/3596_2.png) [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/93 "2020-09-12T05:35:58Z")
> [@Rob54](#): > > (This) is not art. This is commerce. That’s an apt description of the movie industry since it began. You had the truth within you all along! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/94 "2020-09-12T05:54:29Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > STANDARD 1. One of the following must be true: > > A. At least one lead or major supporting actor must be from a non-white racial/ethnic group. > > B. At least 30% of minor roles must be filled by such ethnic groups or by women, or > > C. The primary storyline must centre on women, a non white ethnic group, LGBTQ people, or people wth disabilities. While I am all for pushing for progressive policies I think this is too restrictive. A movie such as [“Twelve Angry Men”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_Angry_Men_(1957_film)) would never be considered for an award (and it was very much an award worthy movie). It is quite possible to have a story worth telling that doesn’t meet that criteria. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/95 "2020-09-12T06:18:57Z")
I missed the edit window: It may be too difficult to implement but I think a system that insisted a movie adhere to the racial makeup of the time for the story it is telling would make more sense. If you are doing something like [“Master & Commander”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_and_Commander:_The_Far_Side_of_the_World) the cast should reflect a crew that you would expect to see at the time which is probably not a lot of women or minorities. If you are adapting a book I think you should adhere to the book so something like [“Lolita”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita_(1997_film)) should be populated as it was written. And what do you do with movies like [“My Dinner with Andre”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Dinner_with_Andre)? Do the other people in the restaurant count? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/96 "2020-09-12T06:32:14Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > A movie such as [“Twelve Angry Men”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_Angry_Men_(1957_film)) would never be considered for an award (and it was very much an award worthy movie). The movie centered on an “[18-year-old impoverished youth accused of stabbing his father to death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_Angry_Men_(1957_film)#Plot)”. I don’t remember what kind of detail about the ethnicity, sexual orientation, or disabilities of those characters were described in the movie, I think there was more in the original teleplay, but these details would be very easy to add in if they weren’t there in a way that would satisfy this requirement: > [@RickJay](#): > > C. The primary storyline must centre on women, a non white ethnic group, LGBTQ people, or people wth disabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/97 "2020-09-12T06:35:14Z")
I am not sure that is sufficient for their restrictions. The primary storyline are the guys in the jury room and what happens there. The rest is just a reason for them to be there. The subject being discussed may be a minority but I don’t see how that would count for this. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/98 "2020-09-12T06:43:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The primary storyline are the guys in the jury room and what happens there. What happens there is that they discuss the trial and the crime and delve into the reasons of why they turn around from near unanimity for a guilty verdict. That is the storyline. Now if that wouldn’t count, then it’s valid as a _substantial_ criticism of these rules. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/99 "2020-09-12T06:55:18Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What happens there is that they discuss the trial and the crime and delve into the reasons of why they turn around from near unanimity for a guilty verdict. That is the storyline. I would also add that I think it is important that the twelve jurors are all white and all men. Especially for its time. You could make the same movie with a diverse cast of jurors but that would change the whole tenor of the movie. For its era it was important that the twelve people in that room were white men. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/100 "2020-09-12T07:01:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I would also add that I think it is important that the twelve jurors are all white and all men. Especially for its time. Yes, but that is the cast. This third qualifier for STANDARD 1 is clearly different from the first two in not specifying the cast at all, it is an alternative that allows for an entirely non-diverse cast. I’d rather there had been an effort to implement these rules by voluntary commitment but they just do not seem to be a major roadblock for film makers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127.md?page=6)