# Oscars have new rules for best picture in 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 9, 2020, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127 "2020-09-09T01:29:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/141 "2020-09-12T23:47:39Z")
So - using a movie like _Dunkirk_ as the example - the only way it could win an Oscar under such rules would be to use minority/women/LGBT as producers and staff (just about no women or non-white people in the British army at Dunkirk.) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/142 "2020-09-13T00:01:27Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So - using a movie like _Dunkirk_ as the example - the only way it could win an Oscar under such rules would be to use minority/women/LGBT as producers and staff (just about no women or non-white people in the British army at Dunkirk.)   OR the studio could have senior execs who are minority or female. And the movie can have minority or female interns. It really doesn’t look hard to meet these guidelines. > STANDARD 2: At least one of these three things must be true: > > A. Two major creative leadership positions ( Casting Director, Cinematographer, Composer, **Costume Designer,** Director, Editor, **Hairstylist, Makeup Artist** , Producer, Production Designer, **Set Decorator** , Sound, VFX Supervisor, Writer ) must be women, from non white ethnic group, LGBTQ, or disabled, and one must be the ethnic group category. > > B. Six other major positions are from the above noted groups, or > > C. 30% of the entire crew is from the above noted groups. > > Standard 3: **Substantial internship or training opportunities must be offered to minority groups** > > Standard 4: **Substantial representation from above mentioned groups in senior executive leadership in studio or film company.** ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/143 "2020-09-13T00:04:00Z")
As even the thread title says, the rules apply only to the Best Picture Oscar, so a movie like Dunkirk could win a pile of Oscars even if every actor, crew member and studio employee were white men. But they’re not. The rules are not that difficult to meet today. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/144 "2020-09-13T01:26:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > A movie such as [“Twelve Angry Men”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_Angry_Men_(1957_film)) would never be considered for an award (and it was very much an award worthy movie). Please, please, please, read the new requirements before commenting. _You clearly did not,_ and so are wrong twice over: 1. “Twelve Angry Men” could absolutely be considered for Best Picture even with an all white cast. Please read the requirements. 2. Even if the other conditions were not met, these only apply to Best Picture. Not any of the other 23 Oscar categories. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/145 "2020-09-13T01:39:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So - using a movie like _Dunkirk_ as the example - the only way it could win an Oscar under such rules would be to use minority/women/LGBT as producers and staff (just about no women or non-white people in the British army at Dunkirk.) Thank you for making it clear that a movie like _Dunkirk_ absolutely could win Best Picture. (For one thing, it had a female co-producer, [Emma Thomas](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0858799/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr7)) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/146 "2020-09-13T06:09:59Z")
So these rules are essentially worthless. It’s all virtue signalling. There are no movies you can think of which would fail this test that would be within a light year of getting an Oscar nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/147 "2020-09-13T08:48:07Z")
Almost certainly, nobody in this thread is in a position to know if any specific movie passes these criteria. _12 Angry Men_ didn’t pass the first. Probably didn’t pass the one about having a minority intern outreach program. The others? I don’t know the race of anyone involved in the film who wasn’t on screen or the director. I wouldn’t be surprised, given the time it was made, if the film made in 1957 would have failed to pass these criteria. The point is, that could have been corrected without changing anything about the film you actually ended up seeing. That doesn’t make this rule change “worthless” - equality of opportunity behind the camera is important, too. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/148 "2020-09-13T09:14:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The point is, that could have been corrected without changing anything about the film you actually ended up seeing. That doesn’t make this rule change “worthless” - equality of opportunity behind the camera is important, too. I would be interested to see a list of movies that had been nominated for “Best Picture” (which this rule only seems to cover) that would not meet their new criteria. The more we talk about this the more it seems the Academy carefully crafted a nothing-burger of rules aimed to make them look cool and progressive without actually doing anything at all. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/149 "2020-09-13T11:32:42Z")
Anyone remember _Keeping Up With The Joneses_, starring Zach Galifianakis and Jon Hamm? The one with Isla Fisher as Zach’s wife, and fourth-billed Gal Gadot as Jon’s? Would that, _right there,_ pass A1? Gadot’s role is, I’d think, ‘leading’ or ‘significant supporting’; so my question is, _is Israel MENA?_ ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/150 "2020-09-13T13:11:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > just about no women or non-white people in the British army at Dunkirk. Again, [ahistorical](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/01/indian-african-dunkirk-history-whitewash-attitudes) bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/151 "2020-09-13T13:16:14Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Would that, _right there,_ pass A1? Gadot’s role is, I’d think, ‘leading’ or ‘significant supporting’; so my question is, _is Israel MENA?_ Israel _is_ in the MENA, but what’s that got to do with rule 1A (which I take it you meant by “A1”)? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/152 "2020-09-13T13:50:26Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Israel _is_ in the MENA, but what’s that got to do with rule 1A (which I take it you meant by “A1”)? Per [the site,](https://www.oscars.org/news/academy-establishes-representation-and-inclusion-standards-oscarsr-eligibility) > [@](#): > > **STANDARD A: ON-SCREEN REPRESENTATION, THEMES AND NARRATIVES** > To achieve Standard A, the film must meet ONE of the following criteria: > > **A1. Lead or significant supporting actors** > > At least one of the lead actors or significant supporting actors is from an underrepresented racial or ethnic group. > • Asian > • Hispanic/Latinx > • Black/African American > • Indigenous/Native American/Alaskan Native > • Middle Eastern/North African > • Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander > • Other underrepresented race or ethnicity Leaving aside that it’s listed as A1 rather than 1A, I’m asking whether Gal Gadot qualifies under the bit where — well, see, the entry just above Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander? That one right there. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/153 "2020-09-13T14:17:49Z")
Regarding _12 Angry Men_, a potential remake could have an all-white, all-male jury and still qualify. Recall that there are actually _thirteen_ characters, including the baliff who periodically visits the jury room to deliver transcripts and evidence. Just cast a black lesbian transgender handicapped person in that role, and you’re golden. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/154 "2020-09-13T14:36:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think you missed my link offtopic: I actualy run into that problem often if a link is in a block of text. Something about how the color render on my screen and my eyesight make it easier to miss the difference in the colors. (e.g. I barely can see that @The_Other_Waldo_Pepper’s most recent post contains a link) It’s why I’ve been manually underlining my links in those situations. If anyone else has problems, I might suggest it be changed in the skin(s). Otherwise, it may finally be my first userscript for the new site to just add underlining. /offtopic I agree with everyone else about the rules, and I think I’m going to enjoy seeing who gets upset about them. They really are the bare minimum one would expect. And I’m very much anticipating an “article” whining about all the old ones that wouldn’t qualify–which I would actually find interesting anyways. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/155 "2020-09-13T14:49:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The more we talk about this the more it seems the Academy carefully crafted a nothing-burger of rules aimed to make them look cool and progressive without actually doing anything at all. This is my feeling as well. A lot of the comments here seem to say that most movies meet the criteria already or could meet them with just a trivial amount of tweaking. If that’s the case, then it seems like the criteria is more for show than for really affecting social change. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/156 "2020-09-13T15:45:58Z")
I still don’t see why Rule 1c. requires a single cast member to be anything but a ‘white man’. > [@RickJay](#): > > STANDARD 1. One of the following must be true: > > C. The primary storyline must centre on women, a non white ethnic group, LGBTQ people, or people wth disabilities. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/157 "2020-09-13T16:07:21Z")
Aah, sorry, I was going by RickJay’s summary numbering. Anyway, I think the main part of the rule supercedes the individual lists, and I think you’ll [struggle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_entertainers) to argue that Ashkenazi Jews are “an underrepresented racial or ethnic group” in Hollywood. Let’s be real here - by “Middle Eastern/North African” they _mean_ Arab and related ethnicities, and it’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise. It’s exactly the same level of “cleverness” as saying Charlize Theron is an “African actress.” ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/158 "2020-09-14T01:10:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is the Academy there to promote the art of film making or promote social justice? Maybe promoting social justice is a way to promote the art of film making. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/159 "2020-09-14T01:50:23Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is the Academy there to promote the art of film making or promote social justice? The Academy is there to promote the image of the film-making industry. It does that by promoting quality in motion pictures, but it can also promote it by advancing social justice within the industry. The Academy threw out Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, and Roman Polanski, not because they made bad movies, but because they damaged the image of the industry. ---
**Author:** ![Acerbic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acerbic/32/3695_2.png) [@Acerbic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acerbic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127/160 "2020-09-14T03:27:19Z")
How relevant is the Academy to anyone’s choice in what movies to watch these days? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oscars-have-new-rules-for-best-picture-in-2024/920127.md?page=9)