# Oslo dopers, check in please. Is everyone safe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 22, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984 "2011-07-22T14:03:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/181 "2011-07-23T18:21:18Z")
So, he’s got a [manifesto](http://www.2shared.com/file/M-s-2fBD/2083-AEuropeanDeclarationofInd.html) out, according to the Finns. Anyone read it? Wonder if he’ll get a book deal. ---
**Author:** ![MizTina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MizTina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MizTina)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/182 "2011-07-23T18:34:01Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Agreed. Yeah, though I would want dire retribution, I have to admire the stance taken by the PM and Septima. I wish I was that good of a person. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/183 "2011-07-23T18:34:14Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > So, he’s got a [manifesto](http://www.2shared.com/file/M-s-2fBD/2083-AEuropeanDeclarationofInd.html) out, according to the Finns. Anyone read it? Wonder if he’ll get a book deal. I suspect it’ll be like a certain book written by a certain man in prison in Germany in the 1920s ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/184 "2011-07-23T19:11:02Z")
There are things I still don’t understand. There were literally \*hundreds \*of kids on the island. \*One \*shooter. The shooting lasted for an hour and a half. Why didn’t anyone, at any one time, get together five people, gang up on the guy, storm him and wrestle him to the ground? I suppose that’s easier said than done when you’re panicking and has a gun pointing in your face, but… And of course, maybe someone did try, and simply got shot down? It just seems incredible that one person can have that kind of advantage against a crowd of hundreds, even if they’re kids, just by having a gun. And frightening. Of course, I’ve never had a weapon pointed at me, I don’t know what it’s like. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/185 "2011-07-23T19:16:10Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > There are things I still don’t understand. There were literally \*hundreds \*of kids on the island. \*One \*shooter. The shooting lasted for an hour and a half. Why didn’t anyone, at any one time, get together five people, gang up on the guy, storm him and wrestle him to the ground? I suppose that’s easier said than done when you’re panicking and has a gun pointing in your face, but… And of course, maybe someone did try, and simply got shot down? > > It just seems incredible that one person can have that kind of advantage against a crowd of hundreds, even if they’re kids, just by having a gun. And frightening. Of course, I’ve never had a weapon pointed at me, I don’t know what it’s like. After the first scattering of people he’s gained the high ground. You can’t storm him in the classical sense because he can kill as fast as he squeezes the trigger. The news said he had automatic pistols and rifle but I suspect Norwegians aren’t familiar with the correct terminology. He more than likely had semi-automatic guns which means he didn’t have to advance the next cartridge himself. The only way he could have been attacked with any percentage of survival would be if someone was hiding nearby when he went to reload. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/186 "2011-07-23T19:24:26Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > It also appears he surrendered without a fight as soon as the real police challenged him. This is so unlike what happened in other similar crimes around the world. This is so strange. It seems to me that this was his plan all along. Going to an island and taking his time to commit his heinous and calculated crimes, he had to know he had no chance for escape. That he didn’t try to kill himself suggests that he wanted to be captured so that he can use the attention his acts have garnered to continue to get extended publicity for his views. Hopefully/probably his plan backfires, and a lot of the people who held similar views will see how such repulsive views can lead to such repulsive acts. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/187 "2011-07-23T19:30:12Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > There are things I still don’t understand. There were literally \*hundreds \*of kids on the island. \*One \*shooter. The shooting lasted for an hour and a half. Why didn’t anyone, at any one time, get together five people, gang up on the guy, storm him and wrestle him to the ground? I suppose that’s easier said than done when you’re panicking and has a gun pointing in your face, but… And of course, maybe someone did try, and simply got shot down? > > It just seems incredible that one person can have that kind of advantage against a crowd of hundreds, even if they’re kids, just by having a gun. And frightening. Of course, I’ve never had a weapon pointed at me, I don’t know what it’s like. Most were children, and because of his police uniform and the confusion, many didn’t know enough to run away or resist him until it was too late. I read somewhere that there were some people who approached him and tried to reason with him, but he responded to their reasoning with bullets. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/188 "2011-07-23T19:55:41Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Then there is separate sort of custody, which is used for people who are not mentally unfit, but are considered an active threat to their fellow citizens. It’s a relatively new thing, I think it was passed into law not much more then five years ago. Till now, it’s only been used on people who were actively making death threats while in jail, or on very violent criminals who committed new violent crimes on fellow inmates shortly before release. Not quite. You don’t have to make active threats. If you’re considered a danger to society, you’ll be put into custody instead of jail. The principal difference between jail and custody is that even if a custody sentence is for a given period of time, it can be prolonged - in principle indefinitely - if you’re still considered a danger to society after the first period. In legal terms, custody is not a punishment, it’s a way for society to protect itself against dangerous criminals. The best known person in Norway to get 21 years of custody was Viggo Kristiansen, one of two men who raped and killed two girls in Kristiansand some ten years ago. He won’t get out before he can qualify for being released, even after 21 full years ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/189 "2011-07-23T19:58:51Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Why didn’t anyone, at any one time, get together five people, gang up on the guy, storm him and wrestle him to the ground? I suppose that’s easier said than done […] I suppose that, too. In fact, I suppose that that would be a quite failsafe method of getting yourself shot and killed. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/190 "2011-07-23T20:25:41Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > So, he’s got a [manifesto](http://www.2shared.com/file/M-s-2fBD/2083-AEuropeanDeclarationofInd.html) out, according to the Finns. Anyone read it? Wonder if he’ll get a book deal. The news are saying that he published a video clip online as well. Has anyone seen it? I’m not sure I even want too… I can’t even bring myself to click the download link to that manifesto. It makes me feel sick. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/191 "2011-07-23T20:53:22Z")
I wonder if our laws and attitudes are influenced by historical perspective. The United States “Old West” where they hanged men for stealing a horse, and the weregild in Scandinavia. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/192 "2011-07-23T21:03:27Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > If you’re considered a danger to society, you’ll be put into custody instead of jail. The principal difference between jail and custody is that even if a custody sentence is for a given period of time, it can be prolonged - in principle indefinitely - if you’re still considered a danger to society after the first period. In legal terms, custody is not a punishment, it’s a way for society to protect itself against dangerous criminals. Thanks for this, a good summary. Surely this is what awaits the shooter. Anything less is unthinkable. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/193 "2011-07-23T21:43:36Z")
I am deeply saddened by this. It’s a shame no one was able to jump this guy and stop him before so many died. He can only see in one direction at a time. People could approach from the back. If fifty 17 year old men rush one guy, he will go down. He can’t fire fast enough to stop everyone. I’m at a loss how one guy with two pistols could be so lethal against seven hundred people. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/194 "2011-07-23T21:52:01Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > **Septima** , can I say how much I admire your reaction and your PM’s reaction? How you feel your society should react—not with paranoia, or retaliation, or really by changing in any way. That kind of courage is amazing and heartening. Indeed. I find these responses heartening and wonderful. All Norwegians have my sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/195 "2011-07-23T21:52:58Z")
And now the rain is starting. The weather forecast has been predicting a month’s worth of rain over the next couple of days in Oslo. It’s coming down heavily at the moment. Seems appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/196 "2011-07-23T22:33:06Z")
And there came the thunder. For a moment, I thought “It’s happening again”. I’m with friends five minutes away from the bomb site. I’ll be like this for a rainstorm or two. Then I’ll be fine. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/197 "2011-07-23T22:34:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I am deeply saddened by this. > > It’s a shame no one was able to jump this guy and stop him before so many died. He can only see in one direction at a time. People could approach from the back. If fifty 17 year old men rush one guy, he will go down. He can’t fire fast enough to stop everyone. > > I’m at a loss how one guy with two pistols could be so lethal against seven hundred people. It seems a bit much to expect 50 teenagers at summer camp, trapped on an island, being shot at by a “cop” to have the presence of mind to decide to sacrifice their lives and run at the person who is shooting at them. I don’t think, in my worst nightmare, I could imagine what that was like. Having a police call to you that “you’re safe now! come to me!” so you and all your little friends run to him only to have him start shooting you. It would seem like your world had just gone insane. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/198 "2011-07-23T22:48:00Z")
He just confessed to everything. Apparantly, the killings were “neccesary”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/199 "2011-07-23T22:53:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s a shame no one was able to jump this guy and stop him before so many died. He can only see in one direction at a time. People could approach from the back. If fifty 17 year old men rush one guy, he will go down. He can’t fire fast enough to stop everyone. > > I’m at a loss how one guy with two pistols could be so lethal against seven hundred people. Because they aren’t seven hundred trained, organized people. It isn’t going to spontaneously occur to all those people that they need to rush him, and if it only occurs to a few of them at once they just get killed. It’s basically the same reason why armies of soldiers armed with melee weapons were able to massacre entire cities of civilians despite being massively outnumbered. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/200 "2011-07-23T22:54:53Z")
> [@](#): > > We will fight back with more democracy, by becoming an even more open society. We will not be bombed to silence, we will not be shot to silence." Beautiful words to somehow balm a horrific, evil, calculated murder spree. Did this perp think that with commiting such atrocities that the government of Norway would just say, " You know, you have a very good idea. We are too liberal and junk. Here, you should run the country." There were ten thousand other ways to voice his opinions of displeasure at the system. He chose the most vilest. **Septima** , I admire your words during this terrible terrible time for you, your family, your friends and your nation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984.md?page=11)