# Oslo dopers, check in please. Is everyone safe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 22, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984 "2011-07-22T14:03:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/241 "2011-07-25T17:10:58Z")
An odd bit of good news–apparently the death toll isn’t _quite_ as high as has been reported. Not that it changes the import and interpretation of events, of course. > [@AP](#): > > Police have lowered the death toll in the youth camp massacre outside the Norwegian capital to 68, down from 86. > > Police spokesman Oystein Maeland said that higher, erroneous figure emerged as police and rescuers were focusing on helping survivors and securing the area. > > Maeland also said the death toll in the bomb blast in Oslo before the shootings had gone up to eight, from seven. That puts the total number of people confirmed killed in the twin attacks at 76, down from 93. This is the first time I can recall hearing of an announced death toll being _decreased_. Also, > [@AP](#): > > Norway’s royal court said Monday that those killed at the island retreat included Crown Princess Mette-Marit’s stepbrother [Trond Berntsen], an off-duty police officer, who was working there as a security guard. No word on the particulars of his death–perhaps only one living man knows–but I imagine that he tried to do his duty. A Swedish journalist talked to Anders Behring Breivik’s father, who lives in France and has been estranged from his son since 1995. He said, > [@Jens David Breivik](#): > > I don’t feel like his father. How could he just stand there and kill so many innocent people and just seem to think that what he did was OK? He should have taken his own life too. That’s what he should have done. I couldn’t believe my eyes. It was totally paralyzing and I couldn’t really understand it. I will have to live with this shame for the rest of my life. People will always link me with him. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/242 "2011-07-25T17:55:03Z")
> [@FeAudrey](#): > > If \*you \*think that I should be beaten for saying something that you disagreed with, then \*you \*are the one who should be punching me in the mouth I don’t use violence except to defend myself against violence. That doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t feel sympathy and understanding for someone else punching a jerk in the mouth. And generally, I believe that blaming the victim is close to the pinnacle of jerkitude ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/243 "2011-07-25T17:59:41Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > No word on the particulars of his death–perhaps only one living man knows–but I imagine that he tried to do his duty. According to Norwegian media, he tried to stop the killer. And got killed. However, his 10-year old son, who apparently saw Berntsen being killed, was spared. [Link in Norwegian](http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/07/25/nyheter/utoya/terrorangrep/politimann/mette-marit/17444217/) [Another link in Norwegian](http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080736) ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/244 "2011-07-25T19:50:47Z")
**2square4u, FeAudrey** , if you want to debate pacificism/the appropriate response to violence, start a new thread in GD. If you want to attack each other, take it to the Pit. Otherwise, both of you, drop it. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![FeAudrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FeAudrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FeAudrey)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/245 "2011-07-25T20:08:40Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > **2square4u, FeAudrey** , if you want to debate pacificism/the appropriate response to violence, start a new thread in GD. If you want to attack each other, take it to the Pit. Otherwise, both of you, drop it. > > **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator No Pit and no GD for me; also no 2square4u, as I just added him/her to my ignore list. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/246 "2011-07-25T20:16:06Z")
> [@FeAudrey](#): > > No Pit and no GD for me; also no 2square4u, as I just added him/her to my ignore list. 🆒 Saying that outside the Pit is against the rules. If you’d like me to give you a warning, I’ll be happy to oblige. Otherwise knock it off. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![Kingspades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecae2f/32.png) [@Kingspades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kingspades)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/247 "2011-07-25T21:53:07Z")
**Septima** , although I’m a little late to the thread, your words here have been the most heartwarming, noble and admirable things I’ve read in recent memory. I’ve been closer to something similar than most people: in 1999 I worked across the street from an office where a [gunman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_O._Barton) opened fire. While being near that tragedy isn’t something that has haunted me in any form, I’m not sure that to this day I would agree that a twenty one year term in jail would have been punishment enough for that crime from twelve years ago. But I’m not posting here to stoke that fire; quite the opposite. I want to say that I think you’ve said some amazing and eye-opening things, **Septima,**. I’d be surprised if I’m the only American who has read this thread and thought the same thing. I hope that, when things like this happen in the future, which they sadly will, that the next time my reaction will be more akin to yours from today than mine from today. I also want to take a minute to praise both **Septima** and **Magiver** for their civility toward one another on Saturday. How many message boards can you think of where two people who disagree with one another can, without being prompted, agree to come back and talk about something once emotions aren’t running so high? Threads like this really make me proud to lurk about our little corner of the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/248 "2011-07-25T23:06:29Z")
Can I take a moment to thank everyone who stopped by my thread in these last few days? You may not realize it, but coming here, sharing this time and talking to people who aren’t in the middle of it, really helped me. Thank you all. I just came back from the “Rose March” in memory of the victims. We were supposed to gather in front of city hall, listen to some speeches, then walk up as close as we could get to the site of the bombing and leave flowers. Well, that didn’t happen. Because so many people showed up that they lined the streets all the way along the route, spilling into side streets, filling up the entire downtown area. There was no room to march. But the entire city was filled with people. And when we were given a signal, we all raised our flowers high, turning the city into a sea of color and scent. Then we all went our separate ways. We were told to leave the flower were we felt it would make the most sense. Soon all the hedges were filled with roses, all the statues and fountains overflowed, parked police cars looked like rosebushes, and the square outside the cathedral was almost completely covered. I left mine on one of the roadblocks to the blast site. Many others had the same idea. We turned then all into flowering hedges. To all of you who have praised my words here: thank you for the kind words in return. Although I don’t see how I could say anything else. Not when a survivor from Utøya stood before med today, and asked me to fight hate with love, and hope and democracy. If they can live on with grace, I can do no less. I’m just a bystander. We must take our cues from the survivors and the loved ones of the victims, and they have not called for any other vengeance than that proposed by our PM. So that is what we must all call for. More democracy, more openness, more love. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/249 "2011-07-25T23:12:35Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > More democracy, more openness, more love. Hear, hear! ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/250 "2011-07-25T23:36:25Z")
> [@](#): > > More democracy, more openness, more love. You represent what is good and kind about your country, the world and the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/251 "2011-07-25T23:43:24Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > More democracy, more openness, more love. Thank you! Sometimes we need reminders that most humans don’t suck. Best wishes to Norway and its people. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/252 "2011-07-25T23:48:07Z")
I’m sure we’ll hear more of these in the next few days: [German roofer hailed as hero for saving Norwegian teens from shooting](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/german-roofer-hailed-hero-saving-norwegian-teens-shooting-184230165.html) > [@](#): > > One 32-year-old roofer from Germany, for example, sped on his boat to the island, and helped guide many young people who had tried to swim away from the massacre back safely to shore. [Lesbian Couple Saved Dozens of Campers from Norway Massacre](http://www.towleroad.com/2011/07/lesbian-couple-saved-dozens-of-campers-from-norway-massacre.html?utm_source=feedburner+mod&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+modurban2+%28modurban+2%29) > [@](#): > > Dalen and Hansen drove their boat to the island, and fished out of the water people who were in shock and young people who were injured and transported them ashore. Every now and then bullets almost hit the boat. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/253 "2011-07-26T03:56:49Z")
Glen Beck still has it: you can only be in awe of his talent, really. [Here](http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/glenn-beck-in-firing-line-after-comparing-norway-shooting-victims-to-hitler-youth-20110726-1hxwn.html), he manages to set new records in idiocy and bad taste in one single sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/254 "2011-07-26T09:31:26Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > According to Norwegian media, he tried to stop the killer. And got killed. However, his 10-year old son, who apparently saw Berntsen being killed, was spared. May I just add that he was not only just a policeman. He was also an ex boxing champion, so I think that if anyone could have stopped Breivik it would have been him. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/255 "2011-07-26T16:17:15Z")
[Texts from the island](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14287822) Okay, this made me actually cry: “I love you even if I still misbehave from time to time.” Can you imagine, being a scared teen thinking you’re about to die, and worrying your parents didn’t know you loved them because you’d been naughty ☹ (she survived. I’m sure there are other teens who did, or would have sent similar messages that didn’t) It was also chilling to see her text that she thought she was safe as the police were there - she’d almost certainly seen the gunman and nearly fallen for it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/256 "2011-07-26T17:00:34Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Then we all went our separate ways. We were told to leave the flower were we felt it would make the most sense. Soon all the hedges were filled with roses, all the statues and fountains overflowed, parked police cars looked like rosebushes, and the square outside the cathedral was almost completely covered. You’re making me cry, quit that! Some of the news I’ve read about the boaters who saved many of the kids mentioned that some of them thought the gunner had accomplices circling the island in boats, that he had yelled something along those lines. Somehow, using the lake’s own waters as a weapon and terrifying those kids into trying to escape their real rescuers strikes me as extra offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/257 "2011-07-26T18:39:41Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] You’re making me cry, quit that! [/QUOTE] Oh dear. In that case, do not click [here](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174625/17462549/jpg/active/738x550.jpg). Or [here](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174618/17461892/jpg/active/825x550.jpg) Certainly not [here](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174618/17461889/jpg/active/874x550.jpg) or [here](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174556/17455635/jpg/active/825x550.jpg). Or any [of](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174619/17461910/jpg/active/825x550.jpg) [these](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174625/17462548/jpg/active/825x550.jpg). And don’t even think of [this](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174629/17462976/jpg/active/825x550.jpg) one. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/258 "2011-07-26T19:08:28Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Oh dear. In that case, do not click [here](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174625/17462549/jpg/active/738x550.jpg). Just beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/259 "2011-07-27T00:37:14Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Oh dear. In that case, do not click [here](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174625/17462549/jpg/active/738x550.jpg). > > Or [here](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174618/17461892/jpg/active/825x550.jpg) > > Certainly not [here](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174618/17461889/jpg/active/874x550.jpg) or [here](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174556/17455635/jpg/active/825x550.jpg). > > Or any [of](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174619/17461910/jpg/active/825x550.jpg) [these](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174625/17462548/jpg/active/825x550.jpg). > > And don’t even think of [this](http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174629/17462976/jpg/active/825x550.jpg) one. I clicked. I’m crying. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/260 "2011-07-27T13:52:53Z")
One thing Breivik wanted to achieve was to scare people away from Arbeiderpartiet. I just heard on the radio that there’s an avalanche of new members, both to the party itself and to the youth association. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984.md?page=14)