# Oslo dopers, check in please. Is everyone safe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 22, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984 "2011-07-22T14:03:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/121 "2011-07-23T12:21:59Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > You think? If it’s the [picture](http://twitter.com/#%21/AndersBBreivik) I’ve seen, he couldn’t look \*more \*like a social misfit/serial killer type! (Yes, I know, judge a book by its cover and all that, but that’s a psycho’s haircut if ever I saw one.) You know, I know this is just my brain playing tricks, but the more I look at the pictures now, the more evil he looks. Especially in [this](http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article4181012.ece)picture. I didn’t notice the little beard on his chin at first. It looks downright diabolical. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/122 "2011-07-23T12:38:53Z")
I went to bed to a tragedy. I wake up to … well I’m not too sure what to call this. Words fail me. The thought of those kids on that Island just make my guts cramp up. The world is with you today Norway. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/123 "2011-07-23T12:53:10Z")
Oh God. Oh God. He gathered the children around him, wearing a policeman’s uniform, saying he was there to inform them about the bombing in Oslo. When they were gathered around him, he fired. Then he walked around Utøya, calmly telling children that he was police, that they were safe, that the gunman was captured. When they ran to him, thinking they were safe, he fired. He kept doing it. Shooting children in the water. Searching for those who were hiding. The bombing was just a ploy to aid his work at Utøya. To keep the police busy, to distract journalists, to tie up rescue workers. And to make the children believe that he was there for a reason. To make them trust him. To kill them. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/124 "2011-07-23T13:00:15Z")
Half my family is Scandinavian (Danes). Things like this are not supposed to happen in Scandinavia. I always thought of it as the safest place on earth. In any case, Norway seem like unlikeliest place for terrorism in the world. I can now see that even peaceful, out of the way countries are well capable of producing their own monsters, no need to import them. I hope it does not become a trend. Anyway, I am heartened by the minister’s reaction to this. Go Norway! My best wishes to the Norwegian people. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/125 "2011-07-23T14:03:26Z")
85 confirmed dead at Utøya, up from 84, meaning a total of 92 dead. There are still several people missing, who are likely dead at this point. It’s been 24 hours since the attack. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/126 "2011-07-23T14:13:08Z")
> [@malm](#): > > Gods. I went to sleep with 10 confirmed deaths at Utøya and wake up to 84. Words fail me. I was at the office yesterday and couldn’t follow the news. NPR had reports during my two-hour commute home, but focused on stories about the debt ceiling. Couldn’t watch the news last night. So the last I heard was that 10 were killed at the camp, and one or two (or possibly more) were killed in the bombing. I finally had a chance to check the headlines this morning, and seeing 85 killed at the camp has shocked me. I don’t know what to say. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/127 "2011-07-23T14:18:19Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Oh God. Oh God. > > He gathered the children around him, wearing a policeman’s uniform, saying he was there to inform them about the bombing in Oslo. > > When they were gathered around him, he fired. > > Then he walked around Utøya, calmly telling children that he was police, that they were safe, that the gunman was captured. When they ran to him, thinking they were safe, he fired. > > He kept doing it. Shooting children in the water. Searching for those who were hiding. > > The bombing was just a ploy to aid his work at Utøya. To keep the police busy, to distract journalists, to tie up rescue workers. > > And to make the children believe that he was there for a reason. To make them trust him. To kill them. Confusion among survivors over the number of gunmen is perfectly understandable. The evil of the mind that conceived this is beyond my capacity to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Panurge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@Panurge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Panurge)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/128 "2011-07-23T14:29:15Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Oh God. Oh God. > > He gathered the children around him, wearing a policeman’s uniform, saying he was there to inform them about the bombing in Oslo. > > When they were gathered around him, he fired. > > Then he walked around Utøya, calmly telling children that he was police, that they were safe, that the gunman was captured. When they ran to him, thinking they were safe, he fired. > > He kept doing it. Shooting children in the water. Searching for those who were hiding. > > The bombing was just a ploy to aid his work at Utøya. To keep the police busy, to distract journalists, to tie up rescue workers. > > And to make the children believe that he was there for a reason. To make them trust him. To kill them. That is just monstrous. I’m at loss for words. Poor kids ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/129 "2011-07-23T14:47:50Z")
Does Norway have the death penalty? ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/130 "2011-07-23T14:49:27Z")
> [@Panurge](#): > > That is just monstrous. I’m at loss for words. Poor kids ☹ I am so, so glad that they were able to take him into custody. It’s always so much more difficult to deal with these tragedies when the suspect kills himself or gets taken down by police, because we’re left wondering why and how, and what broke in this person’s mind to destroy his humanity and allow him to do such things. Years of sad and violent world events have desensitized me somewhat to tragedy in general, but the thought of this man coming calmly to these nervous children, reassuring them that they’re safe now because the police are here, and then starting to shoot and picking them off as they run from him - I cried at **Septima** ’s post. There’s no way to protect the world from _every_ unbalanced individual with a plan for destruction, but maybe the more of them we can catch, question, and analyze, the better we can get at spotting some of the warning signs? ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/131 "2011-07-23T14:52:12Z")
The tragedy is simply unthinkable. > [@Cicero](#): > > Today, I think we are all Norwegian. This. In days of tragedy in the USA, I’ve taken some solace in the outpouring of support from our international friends. We’ll be here for you, Norway, if there’s anything you need. Stay proud, and be safe. -D/a ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/132 "2011-07-23T14:52:26Z")
[QUOTE=Baker] Does Norway have the death penalty? [/QUOTE] No, fortunately. Maximum punishment is 21 yrs. Although he may get something called “forvaring” after that (“storage?”), which means that he stays in for as long as he is considered a threat. Although longer than 10 years requires a new trial at that time. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/133 "2011-07-23T14:54:04Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > I didn’t notice the little beard on his chin at first. It looks downright diabolical. Looks like the wimps around here that can’t grow a beard, but try anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Panurge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@Panurge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Panurge)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/134 "2011-07-23T14:57:11Z")
I think “custody” is the word - we use it in Denmark as well, but only if the person is proven mentally ill in some way. Not to say that this guy isn’t, but it isn’t necessarily the seriousness of the crime that determines whether someone is put away under the “indefinite custody” label. ---
**Author:** ![MizTina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MizTina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MizTina)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/135 "2011-07-23T14:57:44Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > No, fortunately. Maximum punishment is 21 yrs. > > Although he may get something called “forvaring” after that (“storage?”), which means that he stays in for as long as he is considered a threat. Although longer than 10 years requires a new trial at that time. Would the maximum be for each count of which he is found guilty? He would be tried for every individual person he slaughtered, right? ---
**Author:** ![Panurge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@Panurge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Panurge)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/136 "2011-07-23T15:08:36Z")
Not in Denmark. The longest anyone has spent in “regular” prison here is a guy who killed four policemen - he was released after 33 years. And that was an unusually long prison term, too. We don’t have those “489 years” sentences in Scandinavia. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/137 "2011-07-23T15:09:36Z")
[QUOTE=MizTinaWould the maximum be for each count of which he is found guilty? He would be tried for every individual person he slaughtered, right?[/QUOTE] No. 21 years total. That’s it. [QUOTE=PanurgeI think “custody” is the word - we use it in Denmark as well, but only if the person is proven mentally ill in some way. Not to say that this guy isn’t, but it isn’t necessarily the seriousness of the crime that determines whether someone is put away under the “indefinite custody” label.[/QUOTE] I think these are two different things - we have “indefinite custody” for the mentally unfit as well. I don’t think that applies here though - he seems chillingly rational. Then there is separate sort of custody, which is used for people who are not mentally unfit, but are considered an active threat to their fellow citizens. It’s a relatively new thing, I think it was passed into law not much more then five years ago. Till now, it’s only been used on people who were actively making death threats while in jail, or on very violent criminals who committed new violent crimes on fellow inmates shortly before release. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/138 "2011-07-23T15:11:46Z")
> [@Panurge](#): > > I think “custody” is the word - we use it in Denmark as well, but only if the person is proven mentally ill in some way. I’ve been reading translations of his online posts and he sounds sane. His positions are vile, but his arguments are coherent and logically reasoned. He’s not a delusional nutjob like the guy who shot Gabrielle Giffords. He’s a political terrorist with an extreme agenda who used violence against those whose views he opposed. He’s in his early thirties. When he gets out of prison he’ll still be a relatively young man. He might have made the rational calculation that two decades behind bars was a reasonable price to pay to strike a blow against multiculturalism. ---
**Author:** ![Panurge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@Panurge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Panurge)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/139 "2011-07-23T15:14:46Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > No. 21 years total. That’s it. > > I think these are two different things - we have “indefinite custody” for the mentally unfit as well. I don’t think that applies here though - he seems chillingly rational. > > Then there is separate sort of custody, which is used for people who are not mentally unfit, but are considered an active threat to their fellow citizens. It’s a relatively new thing, I think it was passed into law not much more then five years ago. Till now, it’s only been used on people who were actively making death threats while in jail, or on very violent criminals who committed new violent crimes on fellow inmates shortly before release. You are right. After a bit of research I see that we have that exact same distinction here as well. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984/140 "2011-07-23T15:16:28Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > I’ve been reading translations of his online posts and he sounds sane. His positions are vile, but his arguments are coherent and logically reasoned. Well, yeah. It’s the “gunning down 90 teenagers in cold blood” part that’s making us question his sanity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oslo-dopers-check-in-please-is-everyone-safe/589984.md?page=8)