# Osteen church burgled for HOW MUCH?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 12, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543 "2014-03-12T16:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/21 "2014-03-12T20:03:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Aha, that explains your “huckster” comment. I was trying to think of anything particularly seedy about the church in question. It may preach something that people disagree with, but it’s not those churches that trick people into thinking that, if they pay x amount of money, God will give them 1000x back. Nor is it one of those that promotes healings or “signs” that turn out to be fake. It’s just one a long line of “feel-good” churches. > > Unless, of course, you know something I don’t. I haven’t followed him in a while. The messages just feel like empty platitudes. Yeah: _Is_ there anything unsavory about Osteen or his church aside from its being really, really big (and from the antipathy some people around here have toward religion in general)? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/22 "2014-03-12T20:27:17Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Yeah: _Is_ there anything unsavory about Osteen or his church aside from its being really, really big (and from the antipathy some people around here have toward religion in general)? There’s never been any suggestion of any unsavory behavior. They’re less controversial than most churches. Mostly feel good stuff. Joel Osteen goes out of his way not to offend people. They even dropped the “Baptist” appellation to make themselves more innocuous. I guess they’re a bit more commercial than most churches, but that’s just the American way. No prosperity gospel or anything like that. Personally, I’d say the whole church was kind of tacky, rather than unsavory. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/23 "2014-03-12T20:31:54Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > There’s never been any suggestion of any unsavory behavior. They’re less controversial than most churches. Mostly feel good stuff. Joel Osteen goes out of his way not to offend people. They even dropped the “Baptist” appellation to make themselves more innocuous. > > I guess they’re a bit more commercial than most churches, but that’s just the American way. No prosperity gospel or anything like that. > > Personally, I’d say the whole church was kind of tacky, rather than unsavory. I suppose that’s a fair assessment, but let’s address one point you made…they dropped “Baptist” to make themselves more innocuous. They aren’t controversial, unless you’re like me and a little extra-disgusted at “prosperity gospel” teaching. So you have a pastor who has watered down his message so as to not be offensive, spouts a philosophy that the more you give to the church the richer God will make you, and has himself a net worth of $40 million. Conclusion: he has built up a watered-down mega-ministry for the purpose of enriching himself. So hey, maybe he’s not breaking the law, or even lying. No, he doesn’t stoop to the level of the big mega-fraudsters. But the whole thing is entirely off-putting. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/24 "2014-03-12T20:50:15Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > No prosperity gospel or anything like that. > [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > They aren’t controversial, unless you’re like me and a little extra-disgusted at “prosperity gospel” teaching. > > So you have a pastor who has watered down his message so as to not be offensive, spouts a philosophy that the more you give to the church the richer God will make you 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/25 "2014-03-12T20:51:36Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > 😕 Final line of his post was accurate enough…I do NOT agree that Osteen’s schtick isn’t prosperity gospel. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/26 "2014-03-13T00:23:07Z")
One note on the theft. The stolen items were cash and checks, not credit card or debit receipts. Your guess is as good as mine what percentage of their weekly receipts constitute CC or debit, but I would not be surprised if members of the congregation could set up an automatic weekly tithe from their accounts. Or that the church had card readers to allow visitors to make their offerings via CC. In short, 600k is probably well below what Lakewood normally takes in a week. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/27 "2014-03-13T00:34:58Z")
> [@Sean\_Factotum](#): > > $600,000 between 38,000 is only $15.79 each person. So I guess that’s not too outrageous an amount for one weekend, before the banks open Monday morning. And think of the super entertainment you get for a measly $15! Fire, brimstone, eternal damnation threats, and maybe some rockin’ gospel! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/28 "2014-03-13T00:41:03Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > And think of the super entertainment you get for a measly $15! Fire, brimstone, eternal damnation threats, and maybe some rockin’ gospel! Not really. As others have noted, Osteen tends to emphasize the positive aspects of religion. He’s more _“Let’s all appreciate the wonders of God’s creation”_ rather than _“You’re going to burn in Hell if you don’t change your ways.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/29 "2014-03-13T00:47:11Z")
As an example of what I said in my previous post, here are Joel Osteen’s ten most recent tweets: \*There are already enough things pushing people down. Make it your business to lift people up. If people are criticizing you, trying to make you look bad, it’s because you’re out in front, making a difference. Make a choice to live each day happy. You’ll be stronger, you’ll have better relationships, and you’ll accomplish more. Trust is saying, “God I’m not going to let this upset me. I can’t make it work out my way, but I know you’re in control.” Don’t lose faith. Sometimes what looks like a disappointment is simply meant to get you in position for greatness. You’ll never change what you tolerate. Be determined you are not going to live life defeated, addicted, angry or insecure. You may have had negative baggage passed down to you. But you can put an end to it. Turn off the negative genes. God has all kinds of ways to bring your dreams to pass. Get your hopes up. Expect His favor! Don’t sit on the sidelines of life. Be the best you can be right where you are. No matter where you’re headed, what your dreams are or how many obstacles you face, believe that you are closer than you think!\* ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/30 "2014-03-13T00:51:58Z")
Shouldn’t those be captions of cat posters? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/31 "2014-03-13T02:44:48Z")
Since Osteen is a Prosperity Gospel preacher, does this mean God doesn’t love him as much as He did before the theft? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/32 "2014-03-13T02:50:20Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Final line of his post was accurate enough…I do NOT agree that Osteen’s schtick isn’t prosperity gospel. Prosperity Gospel emphasizes a “giving to get” mentality that I don’t think he does. What he does is closer to a Christian version of motivational speaking. It’s “feel good” Christianity. Good things happen to you because you are a Christian and have “God’s favor.” The difference is small, but I do think it is significant. The former is actual exploitation, as it’s about getting your money. The other is just doctrinally questionable. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/33 "2014-03-13T02:57:22Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Yeah: _Is_ there anything unsavory about Osteen or his church aside from its being really, really big (and from the antipathy some people around here have toward religion in general)? Unsavory in that it is snake oil sales. Old man John Osteen started Lakewood Church back in the late 50s or early 60s and grew it up to be a sizable moneymaker. When he kicked the bucket in 1999, Joel stepped up as the head huxter and grew the church by leaps and bounds. We’ve had to put up with the Osteens for decades here in Houston. They are like toenail fungus - they just won’t go away. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/34 "2014-03-13T03:15:29Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Yeah: _Is_ there anything unsavory about Osteen or his church aside from its being really, really big (and from the antipathy some people around here have toward religion in general)? He lives in a $10 million mansion and has a personal net worth of $40 million, which suggests he may not be all that pious. Something about it being tricky for rich men to get into heaven and poking camels with needles, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/35 "2014-03-13T13:19:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Prosperity Gospel emphasizes a “giving to get” mentality that I don’t think he does. What he does is closer to a Christian version of motivational speaking. It’s “feel good” Christianity. Good things happen to you because you are a Christian and have “God’s favor.” > > The difference is small, but I do think it is significant. The former is actual exploitation, as it’s about getting your money. The other is just doctrinally questionable. > [@](#): > > “If you are believing for your child to find God, go help somebody else’s child to develop a relationship with God. If you’re struggling financially, go out and help somebody who has less than you have … f you want to reap financial blessings, you must sow financial seeds in the lives of others … If you want to see healing and restoration come to your life, go out and help somebody else get well” From Your Best Life Now, pp. 224, 250-51 Googling “Osteen prosperity gospel” turn up LOTS of hits. This is also a good article: [The False Promise Of The Prosperity Gospel: Why I Called Out Joel Osteen And Joyce Meyer | HuffPost Religion](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pastor-rick-henderson/osteen-meyer-prosperity-gospel_b_3790384.html) ---
**Author:** ![PeacePlease](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@PeacePlease](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeacePlease)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/36 "2014-03-13T21:34:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > More than that. The church seats 16,800 and they conduct four services each weekend. They usually get over 43,000 people attended each week and they’ve hit as high as 46,000. That is absolutely insane! I had no clue. Very disturbing. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > There’s literally a gift shop when you come in from the parking deck, selling all sorts of things, including the Osteens’ books. > > It’s hardly a blip to them. They came up with nearly $12 million up front for a 30 year lease back 10-15 years ago. And bought the property outright a few years ago for nearly $8 million. That’s not including the tens of millions (not sure how much but over $50M and less than $100M) in renovations on top of that. > > It’s a fair amount of money to lose, but even if they ate the loss themselves, it’s hardly enough to damage any of their operations. Again, unreal. When are sane people going to rise up and smash this kinda shit? (Honestly, no offense meant for believers, but really.) ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/37 "2014-03-13T22:35:45Z")
Ok as an atheist who has very little use for any religion, I have to say that Osteen is about as much of a threat as a sappy motivational poster “Teamwork: You don’t have to do it alone!” Yeah the guy is a millionaire who lives opulently and people continue to donate to him. He’s a motivational speaker who rarely even talks about Christ or Christian values anymore. He does genuinely give pretty good advice, even if it is insipid and uninspired. But come on. Smash it? Why do people let it happen? Get off it. There are real, dangerous religions in this world and Osteen is actually probably a net positive in the world even if he is a hypocrite and lives opulently. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/38 "2014-03-13T23:19:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He lives in a $10 million mansion and has a personal net worth of $40 million, which suggests he may not be all that pious. Something about it being tricky for rich men to get into heaven and poking camels with needles, I think. [Prosperity Gospel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_Gospel) Basically, he believes in the teaching that he’s rich because he IS pious. God rewards you by making you wealthy. (Yeah, quite convenient, isn’t it?) ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/39 "2014-03-13T23:43:42Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543/40 "2014-03-14T01:51:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > More than that. The church seats 16,800 and they conduct four services each weekend. They usually get over 43,000 people attended each week and they’ve hit as high as 46,000. > [@robby](#): > > As long as we’re pointing out mundane and pointless stuff, I will point out that I have fond memories of the building in question (formerly The Summit in Houston). My dear, departed grandmother took me to the **circus** there as a little boy, and in college I saw Billy Joel, Fleetwood Mac, and Sting perform there. Still seems to be a circus - 4 shows each weekend (bolding mine).🙂 _dedicated pastafarian here:D_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/osteen-church-burgled-for-how-much/683543.md?page=3)