# OTC Self-defense Sprays Don't Work! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 13, 2022, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967 "2022-03-13T02:38:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/41 "2022-03-14T04:10:46Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I saw it clear as day on TV, and I remember it well. How is that analogous to ‘friend of a friend’ 🙂 ? I’d call it direct information. > > And people here don’t believe that I saw it on TV? Are you saying people here are accusing me of lying 🙂 ? No one is accusing you of lying. We’re floating the possibility that you don’t remember a news report from 20 years ago as clearly as you think you do. Even what you’re suggesting is true the stuff would have disappeared from shelves decades ago. Especially if something like hair spray or mosquito repellent would be just as effective and make someone sneeze and cough. However, there’s countless studies showing just how effective it is. And do you honestly think nearly every US (and probably many other) police officer would carry it if it didn’t work? ETA, and let’s not ignore the possibility that the news report was just plain incorrect or the “experiment” they did, with a sample size of 1 (and no control), was flawed. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/42 "2022-03-14T04:21:22Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > But isn’t the concentration what _determines_ the Scoville number? No, doesn’t work that way. It _seems_ like it should but it doesn’t. Capsaicin doesn’t just come in one strength and the amount of it ratioed against the inert liquid doesn’t determine strength. Commercial OC sprays tend to be labeled terribly. They should state the SHU of the capsaicin and the overall percentage of the spray that is that capsaicin. Having too high of a percentage of the spray be capsaicin can cause clogging and a failure to spray. While it seems to be all liquid there are solid particles in the spray as well. There was some spray being sold at 30% (SHU is unknown o me) and it was undependable because it got clogged up a lot. Fox Labs makes some stuff that is 5.3 million SHU in a 2% concentration. This will be more effective than a spray that is 2 million SHU in a 10% solution. [https://www.amazon.com/Fox-Labs-5-3-mm-Stream-Pepper/dp/B008VOS3C4](https://www.amazon.com/Fox-Labs-5-3-mm-Stream-Pepper/dp/B008VOS3C4) Think of it like liquor. If 10% of your cocktail contained liquor that was 30 proof and 5% of your friends cocktail had liquor that was 180 proof, which would pack a greater punch? ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/43 "2022-03-14T04:27:55Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I saw it clear as day on TV, and I remember it well. How is that analogous to ‘friend of a friend’ How is it that you can remember “clear as day” a random TV news report from 20 years ago yet you can’t remember what year your dog died? ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/44 "2022-03-14T04:36:35Z")
A while back I was on a jury for a trial that involved a cop who tazed the perp (now felon) and then got into a physical battle over the perps gun. The gun ended up on the ground and a witness ran over and pushed the gun away from them so the bad guy couldn’t get it again. During the trial, another witness testified under oath that he saw the first guy kick the gun out of the bad guy’s hand. When the lawyer told him that his friend had testified that he had not kicked the gun out of anyone’s hand, witness2 said “That’s what I saw.” I’m just telling this story because I thought it was so amazing how witness2 was so sure he was right despite the man who was involved saying “Nope, didn’t happen that way, I wasn’t the hero you thought you saw.” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/45 "2022-03-14T04:37:00Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Capsaicin doesn’t just come in one strength Yeah, it does. I mean, I’m not disputing your explanation of how pepper sprays are measured and marketed, but capsaicin is a molecule, and comes in exactly one heat level in the same way that sodium chloride comes in exactly one level of saltiness, sucrose comes in exactly one level of sweetness, and caffeine comes in exactly one level of caffeininess. If any of those things are presented as having less than their innate strength, that means that they have been diluted with some other substance. > **[16 Million SHU Pure Crystal Capsaicin Extract! - The Chilli Pepper Co](https://www.chileseeds.co.uk/shop/16-million-shu-pure-crystal-capsaicin-extract-3/)** > > You can not get anything hotter than this \>\>More info ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/46 "2022-03-14T04:41:54Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > If 10% of your cocktail contained liquor that was 30 proof and 5% of your friends cocktail had liquor that was 180 proof, which would pack a greater punch? I don’t drink or follow drinking culture at all, but I would never define a mixed substance in terms of the original components once it is mixed. I would think of one drink being 3 proof and the other being 9 proof. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/47 "2022-03-14T06:52:26Z")
Doesn’t matter. That’s how OC spray is sold. The percentage means far less than the SHU. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/48 "2022-03-14T13:01:12Z")
Well, I got nailed by pepper spray on a bus about twenty years ago when some kids popped on to get the guy sitting in front of me and that shit put me out for a couple minutes. I felt I couldn’t catch my breath for a minute (probably was less than that, but when your body is panicking from not being able to inhale, time has a way of slowing down.) I can’t imagine what the direct hit must have felt like. Whatever it is your news report was testing, I don’t know, but my actual experience contradicts it. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/49 "2022-03-14T13:41:09Z")
FWIW, in NJ you can have pepper spray as a non-cop with the only limitation being that the amount is limited to 3/4 ounce in a container. We spray about 100 recruits per year at our academy and I have yet to see one that it didn’t work on. Some more than others but no one has ever just shrugged it off. Then again, they are not under the influence of PCP or in an altered mental state. There are videos of such people who, basically, walk right through it. As far as SHUs - while it can be measured with instruments, I don’t know that the eyeball can tell the difference between 2 million and 5 million and I’m not about to find out. A red hot poker is a red hot poker. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/50 "2022-03-14T13:46:51Z")
I’ve rubbed my eyes more than once (and once tried taking out a contact) after handling Thai chiles (about 100k Scoville) and it effectively glued my eyes shut for nearly three minutes. And this was after washing my hands with soap and water. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/51 "2022-03-14T14:09:28Z")
After extracting seeds from hot peppers, it’s important to wash your hands _thoroughly_ before using the bathroom. I know from sad experience. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/52 "2022-03-14T19:25:11Z")
Milk helps in such situations. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/53 "2022-03-14T19:53:30Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Yeah, it does. I mean, I’m not disputing your explanation of how pepper sprays are measured and marketed, but capsaicin is a molecule, and comes in exactly one heat level in the same way […] There are other capsaicinoids, but I dont know if they’re found in appreciable quantities in these sprays. And even if they are, the ones I know about are all equally or less “hot” as capsaicin. I suppose it’s possible that formulation and propellent matter re: how well this stuff can get all up in your mucous membranes. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/54 "2022-03-14T20:02:52Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I suppose it’s possible that formulation and propellent matter re: how well this stuff can get all up in your mucous membranes. I’m thinking it could be maybe some sort of colloid? Capsaicin isn’t water soluble, so it could be droplets of an oily/fatty solution that is _x_-percent capsaicin that is then diluted in _y_-amount of water. Then you would have the strength of the droplets _and_ the number of droplets per unit volume. Still a dumb-ass metric, though. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/55 "2022-03-14T20:04:14Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Carry a whistle with you, or a loud horn. Or this is interesting. The phrase people yell that is most likely to get attention is _‘Fire!’_ . So yell Fire, if you are attacked. Side track here. Is there actually a cite for this oft quoted fact? I mean its not like you could do a double-blind study on it, but I’m pretty skeptical this is not just something some cop or self-defence “guru” said sometime. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/56 "2022-03-14T20:21:54Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Thoughts? Questions? Spray the stuff on a knife. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/57 "2022-03-14T20:23:38Z")
Especially if you are an open space, where fire isn’t particularly scary. Thinking about it, it would be more effective if you start telling something _really_ offensive. If you are attacked, start screaming the n-word like you are Kramer doing stand-up. Wait for the people to flock in to film you for Youtube. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/58 "2022-03-14T20:28:40Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > I recently hospitalized someone with my cane. One hit and he was down. I am in the clear legally but I might be sued for damages in civil court. Wait, what??? ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/59 "2022-03-14T20:30:03Z")
Anyone can sue anyone for anything in civil court. My point was that my cane was never considered to be a weapon by law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967/60 "2022-03-14T20:37:27Z")
Now I’m confused, did this actually happen or are you talking hypothetically? If it really happened, I’m dying to know details! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otc-self-defense-sprays-dont-work/960967.md?page=4)