# Other Christian Dopers, Your Input? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 25, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-christian-dopers-your-input/231161 "2004-02-25T19:57:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-christian-dopers-your-input/231161/41 "2004-02-29T15:49:54Z")
The United Church of Christ is extremely gay-friendly in my experience. Do not confuse with the Church of Christ – the two are very much opposites. ---
**Author:** ![geewhiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@geewhiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geewhiz)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2004, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-christian-dopers-your-input/231161/42 "2004-02-29T16:59:19Z")
The Unitarians are not Christian. They were the first group to ever vote themselves out. The official viewpoint is that homosexuality is wrong. This is decided on basis of scripture that condemns homosexuality. Homosexuals can come to church (in fact it is encouraged) but can’t hold leadership positions just as two people who were living together unmarried can’t. There are guidelines for this just as there are guidelines for seletion of pastors, deacons,etc. Oh and mine is pastored by a husband and wife team. They are both ordained. (These are the positios in my church) I don’t think that speaking up in the choral prayer would have done alot of good and could have possibly split the group up. And because he has the traditional viewpoint, you would have come out the enemy. Best thing to do (and I have been in this situation only mine is equality of women in the church) is to stay silent and when it comes your time to pray just pray for tolerance. And I agree that God knows hearts and minds. In the end, it is His decision on how He wants to deal with this situation. KIng David was once told by God not to worry about everyone else and to work on his relationship with Him. I really try to live by that. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-christian-dopers-your-input/231161/43 "2004-02-29T18:14:38Z")
> [@geewhiz](#): > > The Unitarians are not Christian. They were the first group to ever vote themselves out. Funny, that, since I know more than a few who believe that Jesus was the Messiah and that He died for their sins. If that’s not a Christian, what is? As for your assertion that “the Bible condemns homosexuality;” [some very smart people aren’t so sure.](http://www.cebiaz.com/book/) I don’t know if YOU have credentials vis a vis theology, but this guy does, so I’m gonna believe him over you, if you don’t mind. Oh, and [here](http://www.jesusmcc.org/freespirit/rev_james.html) is another learned person who disagrees with you. And [another!](http://www.jesusmcc.org/freespirit/not01.html) And [another!](http://members.aol.com/DrSwiney/knight.html) My point is NOT that homos are accepted in so-called “mainstream” Christianity. I know they’re not, because I can look around me and see all kinds of misery caused by that unfortunate fact. My point is that you can’t make blanket statements like that and be correct. Not to mention, that “everyone agrees with me” does not constitute a logical argument, since it is a [logical fallacy](http://www.fallacyfiles.org/bandwagn.html). ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-christian-dopers-your-input/231161/44 "2004-02-29T19:56:07Z")
> [@geewhiz](#): > > The Unitarians are not Christian. They were the first group to ever vote themselves out. **Untrue**. You don’t have to be a Christian to be a Unitarian, but there are Unitarian Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-christian-dopers-your-input/231161/45 "2004-02-29T20:34:09Z")
> [@Edlyn](#): > > Holy Matrimony is performed by a priest, minister, rabbi, etc., and a civil union is performed by a judge or notary public. Since the former has been performed longer than the later, the term “marriage” and what it traditionally meant should remain with the originator. First, I’d like to apologize to **TeaElle** for continuing this hijack. But I feel as if I’ve typed this out a million times in the past couple of weeks - as a point of data, the Romans and Greeks had civil, very non-Christian marriage long before Christian priests started performing it. They did not originate the term marriage, nor the institution. ---
**Author:** ![Edlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8797f3/32.png) [@Edlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edlyn)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-christian-dopers-your-input/231161/46 "2004-03-01T01:39:15Z")
You forgot the Jews, dear. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-christian-dopers-your-input/231161/47 "2004-03-01T08:17:25Z")
Continuing the hijack, who had what first is _irrelevant_ on its face. We’re talking about the law, and right now, the **legal** entity that allows two people to have their relationship recognized by the state is called marriage. It’s not called holy matrimony, it’s not a sacrament, it’s not a sacred union, but it is a marriage. That’s what it’s called. The fact that religions also call the _spiritual_ entity that allows two people to have their relationship recognized by the church/synagogue/temple/community is also called marriage is confusing but doesn’t have any bearing on the application of the law, and the equal protection of all citizens under the law, regardless of their sexual orientation. Back on topic now, I mentioned, in very vague terms, something about the gay marriage issue in the presence of the director at this evening’s rehearsal. He quickly engaged me in conversation and made it clear that he was also bothered by the politicizing of our prayer last week, and had mentioned it to the pray-er in a phone conversation over the week and the conversation ended with an understanding that the pray-er (who has apparently been known to merge the political and the religious in the past) will not do that again. I hope that this holds true; we will be working together throughout much of the presidential campaign and I don’t think anyone needs a repeat of what happened. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-christian-dopers-your-input/231161/48 "2004-03-01T08:37:34Z")
> [@TeaElle](#): > > He quickly engaged me in conversation and made it clear that he was also bothered by the politicizing of our prayer last week, and had mentioned it to the pray-er in a phone conversation over the week and the conversation ended with an understanding that the pray-er (who has apparently been known to merge the political and the religious in the past) will not do that again. I hope that this holds true; we will be working together throughout much of the presidential campaign and I don’t think anyone needs a repeat of what happened. That’s good news. I don’t think it’s ever inappropriate to voice your concerns about such a matter, as long as you do it tactfully and in private. Churches (and in this case, church groups that span many different denominations) are made up of individuals. All these individuals are bound to have different viewpoints and sensibilities. To simply “suck it up” and silently accept something that you deem to be unpleasant with nary a complaint doesn’t sound right. People should always be able to converse with each other about such matters and to not be afraid to do so. I’m glad that things are going to work out. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-christian-dopers-your-input/231161/49 "2004-03-01T08:40:59Z")
I should probably ammend my previous comment about such conversations always being in private. There are probably times where discussing such issues _should_ be done in public, and done immediately. However, as a general rule, I think it’s usually best to voice concerns and criticisms in private. I think most of us are more receptive to whatever message (or criticism) we are being given when told in private. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-christian-dopers-your-input/231161/50 "2004-03-01T09:17:34Z")
A friend posted this quote, from the oft-quotable Mark Twain, in a LJ entry awhile back. I daresay it has resonance no matter what one’s personal faith is–and has direct bearing on the frequent advice to be silent, to be quiet, to avoid confrontation. > [@](#): > > It must be that the increase comes of the inborn human instinct to imitate–that and man’s commenest weakness, his aversion to being unpleasantly conspicuous, pointed at, shunned, as being on the unpopular side. Its other name is Moral Cowardice, and is the commanding feature of the make-up of 9,999 men in the 10,000. I am not offering this as a discovery; privately the dullest of us knows it to be true. History will not allow us to forget or ignore this supreme trait of our character. It persistently and sardonically reminds us that from the beginning of the world no revolt against a public infamy or oppression has ever been begun but by the one daring man in the 10,000, the rest timidly waiting, and slowly and reluctantly joining, under the influence of that man and his fellows from the other ten thousands. The abolitionists remember. Privately the public feeling was with them early, but each man was afraid to speak out until he got some hint that his neighbor was privately as he privately felt himself. Then the boom followed. It always does. > > Mark Twain, THE UNITED STATES OF LYNCHERDOM (1901) Join less slowly. Join less reluctantly. The boom’s a’coming. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-christian-dopers-your-input/231161.md?page=2)