# "Other drivers" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 21, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298 "2018-02-21T21:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/21 "2018-02-22T10:56:46Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > What puzzles me about these enormous trucks is that I never see anyone doing anything truck-esque with them. What’s the point of having a pickup truck if you don’t use it to pick up stuff? I do lots of [truck-esque](https://flic.kr/p/EPMEM1) stuff with my pickup. But most folks aren’t there when I do. Just a WAG, but I’d bet the urban crowd would prefer I didn’t bring all this to a downtown parking lot. 😉 As to backing in, a quick look at pickup trucks should show there’s a lot more truck behind the rear wheels than ahead of the front ones. If whenever possible (like me) you park your truck on the lot’s edge, backing in till the rear wheels touch the curb allows the truck to be further “in” the space and not hang out into the lane (or at least not as much). Secondly, in a tight spot with cars on either side it is nearly impossible to turn forward into the space and have the rear wheels track and center in the spot (they’ll hang over the line). Backing in solves this problem as well, since you can position the rear wheels to be centered and swing the front as necessary to follow. I don’t have a diagram, but trust me it’s the only way sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/22 "2018-02-22T14:25:22Z")
> [@BobBitchin](#): > > OH GOD!!!:smack: The trailer hitch assholes!:mad: > > It usually a receiver hitch, meaning all that “shin busting” steel can be removed and stored till you need it. A couple of years ago I was walking through a temporary parking lot in a grass field. I had my dog on a leash, and was walking close to the parked vehicles, as there was quite a bit of traffic in and out, and a kinda confusing setup. So my attention was directed other than at the bumpers of the vehicles I was passing. I was just walking at a normal pace, when I smacked into a trailer hitch. Amazing how much damage you can do with the force of just bringing your leg forward. Lower leg swelled up so much, I eventually got an x-ray to see if I’d broken something, or if I had to worry about a blood clot or something. Never really thought of trailer hitches before that, but now I HATE anyone who does not remove theirs when not towing something. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/23 "2018-02-22T14:44:56Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > …And yet, three or four times a day, I’ll see people sneaking through red lights on left turns… > > The other day I saw one of those idiots nearly get t-boned. A woman reflexively hit the gas when the light turned green without checking for entitled assholes who were continuing to turn left. Fortunately the woman saw the guy and stopped in time, though I was slightly disappointed that I didn’t have the opportunity to serve as a witness: “Officer, THIS fuckwad [points dramatically] was turning left AGAINST THE RED LIGHT!” Obviously if left turners are entering the junction on a red light, that’s wrong. But a large number of U.S. drivers seem to be unaware that if somebody has already entered the junction legally on a green light (usually waiting to turn left), they have right of way to complete their maneuver and exit the junction **regardless of the status of the lights**. And, similarly, that a green light does not mean “hit the gas”. It means that you have right of way to continue only if the junction is clear and it is safe to do so. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/24 "2018-02-22T15:04:36Z")
> [@Dobbs](#): > > Now, most drivers grew up with this (no longer) new law in effect for their entire lives. Being unused to to waiting for a green light to turn right, they seem to feel that they can go ahead and turn, just as soon as they stop (and often, mostly stop). . Most drivers here (Florida) don’t even make any sort of pretense about stopping, just cruise right on through. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/25 "2018-02-22T15:05:46Z")
> [@BobBitchin](#): > > OH GOD!!!:smack: The trailer hitch assholes!:mad: > > It usually a receiver hitch, meaning all that “shin busting” steel can be removed and stored till you need it. I wonder how often they back their hitch into someone’s vehicle or someone pulling up behind them hits the hitch. Some stick so far out, it boggles the mind! We hates them, we does! ---
**Author:** ![TRC4941](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trc4941/32/6792_2.png) [@TRC4941](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TRC4941)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/26 "2018-02-22T15:27:44Z")
Here’s my pickup truck rant: Just because you’re driving a 4WD pickup truck doesn’t mean you can fly down the road over the speed limit when the roads are snowy and icy. 4WD doesn’t make you invincible. I have nothing against 4WD pickups - we’ve had a few and we drive AWD cars now. Other rants: -When the person in front of you is going into a turn lane and instead of just getting in the lane, they drive with half of the car in the turning lane and half in my lane. Bonus points if they don’t use a signal. -When sitting at a red arrow light in a left turn lane, why does it take the first two cars FOREVER to move forward? Those lights aren’t green for very long as it is. -No use of turn signals -As a pedestrian, I notice no one wants to stop at crosswalks. I’ve been nearly run over numerous times at a crosswalk that’s at a 4-way stop near my house. As soon as they see me about to cross, some of the cars will barely stop at the stop sign. They shoot across as fast as they can as if I’m going to delay them. There have been times when I’m halfway across the street and cars will shoot right in front of me! ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/27 "2018-02-22T15:29:31Z")
When the second car at a stop sign cruises through right behind the car which stopped because, two cars at one stops make sense, right? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/28 "2018-02-22T15:39:52Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > There is absolutely zero evidence that reversing into parking spots is safer. I have hunted and hunted, but none of the sites that advocate it have any statistics to back it up, only vague “it seems obvious that…” type statements. > > But from the backover fact sheet [here](http://www.kidsandcars.org/files/2015/04/Backover-fact-sheet-FINAL1.pdf) ([kidsandcars.org](http://kidsandcars.org)) we see that > > > [@](#): > > > > On average 232 fatalities and 13,000 injuries occur every year due to backovers. > > While the frontover fact sheet [here](http://www.kidsandcars.org/files/2014/06/Frontover-Fact-Sheet.pdf) it states: > > > [@](#): > > > > The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration January 2009 report (DOT HS 811 085) states that ‘other’ (not a backover) non-occupant nontraffic crashes are responsible for 393 deaths and 20,000 injuries per year. “Nontraffic” means all cases where someone was run over a car when not on the road. That includes all parking lots , strip malls, driveways, etc. How much time do you spend driving forward in those places, vs. backwards? Also [here](https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811116) is a direct comparison of those numbers, which indicate forward moving cars are only 7% more likely to kill children (14 or under) than backward. Despite cars spending much more time driving forward than backward. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/29 "2018-02-22T15:40:59Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > There is absolutely zero evidence that reversing into parking spots is safer. I have hunted and hunted, but none of the sites that advocate it have any statistics to back it up, only vague “it seems obvious that…” type statements. So far, I just have my informal survey. Looking at cars, those backing into traffic seemed more dangerous than those who backed out of it. I realize that’s effectively anecdote and not great statistics. > [@Doug\_K](#): > > But from the backover fact sheet [here](http://www.kidsandcars.org/files/2015/04/Backover-fact-sheet-FINAL1.pdf) ([kidsandcars.org](http://kidsandcars.org)) we see that > While the frontover fact sheet [here](http://www.kidsandcars.org/files/2014/06/Frontover-Fact-Sheet.pdf) it states: I appreciate finding published data on this but what you found does not convince me that driving straight into a parking spot is as safe as backing into it. Both of your citations rely on this report: [https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811085](https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811085) You seem to suggest that because there are fewer backover deaths than frontover deaths in nontraffic crashes, it must mean that driving forward into a parking spot and backing out of it isn’t more dangerous than doing the opposite (and perhaps, that backing in is even more dangerous). I remain unconvinced. Frontover deaths in that report include deadly collisions with “nonoccupants” (people not it a car) in parking lots and driveways when drivers aren’t reversing. Backovers are the same types of collisions but when the driver is reversing. The report’s data is incomplete and I don’t know how it might be skewed. If I wanted to, I could assert that more “frontover” deaths means reversing is safer but that’s preposterous. Drivers spend way more time driving forward in parking lots and theoretically have many more occasions to strike pedestrians. For example, when I drive to Costco, I drive about 1/4 mile through the parking lot and cross about five or six pedestrian crosswalks. I could cause a frontover death at any of those crosswalks or anywhere else someone might be walking or riding a bike. When I get into a parking spot, I reverse about 60 feet. I will concede that reversing is more dangerous than driving forward for any distance covered. The question becomes, how can I minimize the risk of reversing? I can (1) minimize the amount of reversing I do, and (2) reverse where it is safest to do so. Reversing less: My informal survey showed that people who drive straight into parking spots don’t reverse less (unless they pull straight through them and pull straight out into the next spot). They reverse at least as much (judging by the number of times they change gears) and (excluding one outlier) generally seem to reverse much more. If driving in reverse is more dangerous, and I think it is, driving straight into the parking spot seems to increase that risk. Where it is safest to reverse: I think it’s less dangerous to reverse into a parking spot rather than into traffic. Again, referring to my informal survey, people backing out of parking spots seemed to have more close calls with other cars than people driving straight out of them. Backing into a parking spot makes it almost impossible to cause a backover accident because there are rarely any pedestrians in the parking spot I want to park in. If there are, I can see them clearly and wait for them to leave the spot. It’s unlikely that pedestrians who aren’t in a parking spot when I start to back in will suddenly appear as I am doing it (though I suppose they could leap out of an adjacent car). Many (most?) of those backover deaths in the NHTSA report happened in driveways when people run over toddlers. In straight driveways, reversing and driving forward equal out over time. How can we reduce backover deaths in those cases? The pamphlets you cited refers to two issues that may be relevant: (1) Visibility is much worse in reverse. The average “blind zone” cited in the backover pamphlet is 15-20 feet. In the frontover pamphlet, they cite a blind zone of only 6-8 feet. So, the front blind zone is only 40% of the rear blind zone. If the risk of driveover parking spots deaths is linearly correlated with the size of the blind zone, reducing the blind zone risk by 60% could reduce the risk of death by 60%. (2) In many cases the child was killed due to “bye bye syndrome,” that is the child follows a parent out the door unseen, winds up in the car’s blind spot, and is backed over. Putting these concerns together suggests that it’s safer to back into a driveway and drive forward. This does nothing to reduce the chance that a toddler will follow a loved one out to the car but it may reduce the chance of them remaining unseen by perhaps 60% by, and consequently, reduce deaths. > [@pullin](#): > > I do lots of [truck-esque](https://flic.kr/p/EPMEM1) stuff with my pickup. But most folks aren’t there when I do. Just a WAG, but I’d bet the urban crowd would prefer I didn’t bring all this to a downtown parking lot. 😉 > > As to backing in, a quick look at pickup trucks should show there’s a lot more truck behind the rear wheels than ahead of the front ones. If whenever possible (like me) you park your truck on the lot’s edge, backing in till the rear wheels touch the curb allows the truck to be further “in” the space and not hang out into the lane (or at least not as much). Secondly, in a tight spot with cars on either side it is nearly impossible to turn forward into the space and have the rear wheels track and center in the spot (they’ll hang over the line). Backing in solves this problem as well, since you can position the rear wheels to be centered and swing the front as necessary to follow. I don’t have a diagram, but trust me it’s the only way sometimes. You are exactly right that the geometry of cars or trucks favors backing in but I don’t have a diagram either. It’s why people driving forward into a parking spot wind up reversing much more often than people who back in. I also don’t get why people judge pickup truck owners without knowing them. Many trucks do seem to be suburban kid-mobiles and I think that’s pretty stupid but to each his own I suppose. If we taxed the externalities of burning fossil fuels, this “problem” would go away. The one person I know with the truly huge pickup (Ford F350 diesel crew cab, short bed) uses it to tow his 32(?) foot boat and bring his friends with him. The truck stays shiny because he doesn’t use it for landscaping. Sometimes, just to keep it in good running shape and keep the batteries charged, he uses it to pick up groceries. His other car is a hybrid Honda. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/30 "2018-02-22T15:48:18Z")
> [@TRC4941](#): > > -As a pedestrian, I notice no one wants to stop at crosswalks. I’ve been nearly run over numerous times at a crosswalk that’s at a 4-way stop near my house. As soon as they see me about to cross, some of the cars will barely stop at the stop sign. They shoot across as fast as they can as if I’m going to delay them. There have been times when I’m halfway across the street and cars will shoot right in front of me! I want to start carrying a ball peen hammer to deal with these assholes. This person just attacked me with a car, one of the deadliest implements in regular use. If that person comes close enough to me while I’m crossing that I can smash a window or dent a trunk, that person is lucky that I haven’t beaten them to death with the hammer in response. ---
**Author:** ![StraightTalk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straighttalk/32/9982_2.png) [@StraightTalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StraightTalk)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/31 "2018-02-22T15:56:22Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > I back into parking spots all the time and it’s much faster and safer in my opinion. I can get straight into a parking spot by putting my car in reverse. I can also back into most parking spaces from my lane without enrcoaching on the opposing lane at all. I can see clearly as I’m pulling out and let someone else take the spot much more quickly. > > Because people on this board have complained about people backing into parking spots so much, I once tried to gather some data. While waiting for Mrs. Charming and Rested outside a busy Trader Joe’s with a relatively tight parking lot, I took a totally unscientific survey of the number of times that people backing in needed to change gears versus the number of gear changes for people who were driving straight in. I figured gear changes would serve as a proxy for how long it took people to park and because I thought using a stopwatch would require too much subjectivity in counting when someone started or stopped parking. I ignored people who drove straight through two parking spots so they could drive forwards both in and out. (I think that happened only once because there are few empty parking spots in the lot). I don’t remember the specific numbers anymore but what I generally remember was: > > 1. Overwhelmingly, people driving straight into the parking spot needed to reverse and then drive forward again at least once, and often multiple times, to get their cars lined up in the parking spot. > 2. Generally, people backing in could either back in with no further correction or needed at most one time driving forward and then reversing again to ensure they were straight. > 3. The people who reversed into parking spots were generally much straighter and better centered in the parking spots than people who tried to drive straight in. They were generally diagonal in their spots, making it tighter for people parking next to them. > 4. The people who backed in never needed to change gears on the way out of the parking lot. They put it in drive and drove away almost instantly. > 5. The people who drove forward into parking spots inevitably needed to reverse slowly two or three times to get out of the spots (I wasn’t counting this though - maybe next time). They did so slowly and because their vision was compromised while reversing, they were much more likely to almost strike a moving car while backing into traffic. > > At the time, I was keeping a running tally of (1) the number of gear changes each for forward and reverse people and (2) the number of cars parking forwards and backwards so I could compute an average number of gear changes for each. At first, it was a rout. The forward people on average used maybe twice or more of the number of gear changes. Then, one person backed into a spot and then pulled forward, I shit you not, over 20 times. The car was moving imperceptibly in its spot with each gear change and was only pulling forward and backwards a few inches each time (and therefore not blocking the aisle in any way). I believe this person had OCD and wanted it perfectly centered. This was the only person I saw back into a spot and reverse more than twice. This person alone threw off my totals for all the reversers and brought shame upon us all. By the time I finished my tallies, the drive forward people on average still used more gear changes in the end, but it was close. > > However, as I noted above, I estimate that the people reversing out of the spots used two or three gear changes to every one for people who had reversed into the spots. I didn’t actually track this so I don’t have statistics but it was obvious that the people driving straight into the parking spots were spending way more time blocking the traveling lane when you considered the time they spent pulling in and the time they spent pulling out. > > Conclusion: People who reverse into parking spots are safer and faster. We are also more handsome and debonair. One thing your casual observer test didn’t consider is the effects on the driving lane in the parking lot. If you are going to back in to the spot and I’m behind you, I have to stop and wait for you to pull forward, change gear to reverse, and then back into the spot (in however many attempts it takes you to aim your car right). I have to wait for you rather than driving on. Generally, if you pull in forward, you can just pull in and I can drive by. I would think people are better at aiming going forward than in reverse - and faster too. Then, after I’m gone and the lane is clear, you can straighten up. I think, in general, backing in will affect more other people than pulling in forward. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/32 "2018-02-22T15:57:49Z")
The “other drivers” that I find annoying? It’s pretty much all of them. I should be allowed to have lights and a siren so everyone in front of me would have to pull over and let me by. ---
**Author:** ![StraightTalk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straighttalk/32/9982_2.png) [@StraightTalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StraightTalk)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/33 "2018-02-22T16:01:13Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > What puzzles me about these enormous trucks is that I never see anyone doing anything truck-esque with them. Those TV commercials always show the truck driving through mud, rocks, snow, etc. as they deliver concrete blocks to a construction site or pull an elephant out of quicksand. But the trucks I see around town are always spotlessly clean and shiny, and there is never anything in the “extended bed” (which usually has a cover over it). What’s the point of having a pickup truck if you don’t use it to pick up stuff? > > If I was one of those armchair-psychologist types, I’d suggest that the owners are overcompensating for something. But I’m not one of those types, so I won’t suggest that. I wonder that too. In my case, these people work in an office building. The truck is parked in the garage for 9-10 hours a day. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/34 "2018-02-22T16:04:55Z")
Hell is “other drivers”. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/35 "2018-02-22T16:11:56Z")
> [@StraightTalk](#): > > One thing your casual observer test didn’t consider is the effects on the driving lane in the parking lot. If you are going to back in to the spot and I’m behind you, I have to stop and wait for you to pull forward, change gear to reverse, and then back into the spot (in however many attempts it takes you to aim your car right). I have to wait for you rather than driving on. > > Generally, if you pull in forward, you can just pull in and I can drive by. I would think people are better at aiming going forward than in reverse - and faster too. Then, after I’m gone and the lane is clear, you can straighten up. > > I think, in general, backing in will affect more other people than pulling in forward. You are basically right when they are parking, but you aren’t considering the other side of this - when people who drove straight in have to pull out of the spot, they will back out, slowly because they can’t see, and straight because they aren’t good at backing up. So, they will block both lanes of traffic. Then they will do a five point turn, continuing to block both lanes of traffic to rotate 90 degrees and move aside. Meanwhile, there may be a car who continues to block traffic because it is waiting for that spot to open up. I didn’t track this type of disruption my survey but it’s really where the drive straight in people are mucking up the traffic flow. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/36 "2018-02-22T16:31:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t like people who back into parking spaces when there is a line of cars waiting to pass by. I have to sit and wait for you do to do your 18 move forward/move back shimmies into the parking space. Just pull in forward and be done with it! Sure, people backing into parking spaces are annoying. But you know what’s _really_ annoying? People backing out of spaces. Why can’t they just pull out forwards, like normal people? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/37 "2018-02-22T17:28:30Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > What’s the point of having a pickup truck if you don’t use it to pick up stuff? Around here, it means you will have a heavier vehicle, with more clearance under it than other types of vehicles when it snows. I do nothing remotely truckish but I was wishing for a truck when I bottomed out in my driveway a few weeks ago. :smack: The bed would be used for sandbags to weigh it down. ---
**Author:** ![StraightTalk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straighttalk/32/9982_2.png) [@StraightTalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StraightTalk)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/38 "2018-02-22T17:50:40Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > You are basically right when they are parking, but you aren’t considering the other side of this - when people who drove straight in have to pull out of the spot, they will back out, slowly because they can’t see, and straight because they aren’t good at backing up. So, they will block both lanes of traffic. Then they will do a five point turn, continuing to block both lanes of traffic to rotate 90 degrees and move aside. Meanwhile, there may be a car who continues to block traffic because it is waiting for that spot to open up. I didn’t track this type of disruption my survey but it’s really where the drive straight in people are mucking up the traffic flow. Except that, presumably, people don’t back out of their spot unless there is no one in the driving lane. And, therefore, no one to block. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/39 "2018-02-22T17:51:19Z")
One of my traffic peeves (it’s a long list) is when I am backing out of a nose-in spot and someone rushes up to pass behind me. Bearing in mind there are few laws governing private parking lots: I understand that if you’re driving down the parking lot row and I am all the way in the spot with my reverse lights showing, I _should_ yield and wait for you to pass by before I begin to back out. I also _feel that_ even once I have started to back up, if you are near and moving at a reasonable pace, I should stop and let you pass behind me before I back any farther out of the space. You (the generic you), the driver coming down the row, no doubt agree with me on these points, based on what I’ve seen you doing. Where we differ is in _how far_ I can be out of the space before you _should_ recognize that I am a large metal object and hitting me will not improve your time in getting to the store. Some people seem to feel that if they can squeeze between my back bumper and the parked cars even when two thirds of my car is out of my space, I should pull back in and let them go flying down the row. NO. Once I am mostly in traffic, I am _in traffic_, and you must act as though I am just a car ahead of you in the row, not a tube worm that will retract back into my protective shelter at the first sign of movement. ---
**Author:** ![Scoobysnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Scoobysnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoobysnax)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298/40 "2018-02-22T17:51:45Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > I wonder how often they back their hitch into someone’s vehicle or someone pulling up behind them hits the hitch. Some stick so far out, it boggles the mind! We hates them, we does! Living in Southern California, where 1 in 5 drivers has no insurance, we get a lot of hit and run drivers. The trailer hitch on the back of my wife’s F-150 has protected her truck from damage from several people that have decided to run off after hitting her. Can’t say the same thing about the front of their cars though. I will add that backing up a 20+ foot long truck into a parking space is much easier and faster than trying to pull in forward. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-drivers/809298.md?page=3)