# other meanings of 'fag' in UK slang **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 10, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684 "2018-07-10T22:22:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/21 "2018-07-11T07:54:24Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > My next thought if I get “Toast” when I choose “Weird British Dining for $200” is baked beans on toast, which I believe is quite common there as breakfast, and is called I think “baked beans on toast.” > > And it must be from a Heinz can, right? > ETA: “Soldiers” appears in English food names in a number of recipes with aligned upright food items–halved asparagus spears, for example. Similarly, in French cooking similar preparations are called _bastionnade_. Beans on toast is more a lunch or snack item (eg midnight feast). We might have beans with a full english breakfast (bacon, eggs, sausages etc), but not beans on toast for breakfast. And yes, Heinz is the default. I think if you said ‘soldiers’ to any Brit, they’d assume toast you dig into soft boiled eggs rather than asparagus spears (which are called ‘asparagus spears’) ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/22 "2018-07-11T08:57:34Z")
I have beans on toast for breakfast sometimes and it was a common breakfast order at the cafe I worked in, especially for kids, though it wasn’t actually listed on the menu. It’s one of the classic ‘I want something hot but I don’t want to put much effort in’ foodstuffs, suitable for consumption at any time of day. Maybe grate a little cheese on top if you want to perk it up a bit. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/23 "2018-07-11T09:11:06Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > I have beans on toast for breakfast sometimes and it was a common breakfast order at the cafe I worked in, especially for kids, though it wasn’t actually listed on the menu. > > It’s one of the classic ‘I want something hot but I don’t want to put much effort in’ foodstuffs, suitable for consumption at any time of day. Maybe grate a little cheese on top if you want to perk it up a bit. …and a splash of HP Sauce. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/24 "2018-07-11T09:27:56Z")
May I just point out that ‘fag’ in the sense of _“in English public schools, a junior who performs certain duties for a senior”_, is now archaic and is not something practiced in today’s schools. ‘_Tom Brown’s Schooldays_’ introduced us to a public school system where junior boys were systematically bullied by the elders. Tom was roasted and tossed in a blanket by Flashman (later expelled for drunkenness) who later became a literary protagonist in his own right in the _George MacDonald Fraser_ books ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/25 "2018-07-11T09:36:54Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > May I just point out that ‘fag’ in the sense of _“in English public schools, a junior who performs certain duties for a senior”_, is now archaic and is not something practiced in today’s schools. > > ‘_Tom Brown’s Schooldays_’ introduced us to a public school system where junior boys were systematically bullied by the elders. Tom was roasted and tossed in a blanket by Flashman (later expelled for drunkenness) who later became a literary protagonist in his own right in the _George MacDonald Fraser_ books Agreed. To be honest, the word ‘fag’ seems to be slipping out of the language, I can’t even remember when someone last used it for its most common meaning, a cigarette. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/26 "2018-07-11T10:05:52Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > In British public schools (which are private, like Eton, don’t ask) there was a tradition of the older boys using the younger boys as de facto servants. Those younger boy slaves were called fags. Both your cites seem to reference that. > [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > I wonder if that’s where the American meaning comes from. > [@DPRK](#): > > I think it more plausible that the American meaning (demeaning term for gay men) comes from “faggot” as a term of abuse or contempt applied to a woman. The word faggott for homosexual appears to have evolved in the following way: First meaning, a bundle of sticks used for making a fire. Mentioned several times above. This became a slang word for a skinny, boney woman. Then the slang shifted to mean an effeminate man. Then shifted to mean homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/27 "2018-07-11T10:16:38Z")
Fags is still common for cigarette in Australia. Fags was also the name of a candy cigarette [a white sugary stick about the size of a chupachup stick with a red end] that we used to ‘smoke’ last century. To completely and unambiguously disabuse the public of any connotation that children could be encouraged in smoking they cunningly [changed the name](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FADS_Fun_Sticks). ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/28 "2018-07-11T11:26:31Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Agreed. To be honest, the word ‘fag’ seems to be slipping out of the language, I can’t even remember when someone last used it for its most common meaning, a cigarette. As a slightly regretful part-time smoker from SW England, I can attest that it’s still fairly common down here - though with the younger generation spurning cigarettes, plus assimilating American slang, I can see it being on the way out. The use of ‘fagged (out)’ to mean ‘exhausted’ or ‘bothered’ seems pretty archaic these days too - perhaps superseded by ‘knackered’ or ‘can’t be arsed’. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/29 "2018-07-11T13:56:40Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > As a slightly regretful part-time smoker from SW England, I can attest that it’s still fairly common down here - though with the younger generation spurning cigarettes, plus assimilating American slang, I can see it being on the way out. > > The use of ‘fagged (out)’ to mean ‘exhausted’ or ‘bothered’ seems pretty archaic these days too - perhaps superseded by ‘knackered’ or ‘can’t be arsed’. Hey, I’m in Brizzle too, I just don’t seem to know any smokers any more (apart from myself - part time only I promise!) ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/30 "2018-07-11T14:16:38Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > Okay, that makes perfect sense. Is this a sort of protective/mentor relationship, or was it more of a bullying kids into it? > > Also, what’s the deal with toast? I hear it mentioned a quite often\* on UK shows, but nothing to suggest it’s any different than the stuff we eat with breakfast and don’t care too much about (it’s handy, but we wouldn’t be too upset if it weren’t there). > > _compared to US tv. Stephen ry mentioned liking spaghetti hoops on toast, several folks have mentioned enjoying soldiers_\* as a kid, the aforementioned fag toast, etc. . In the US it’s a breakfast staple (included with most breakfasts in almost every decent restaurant), but it’s almost never mentioned or seen (unless a scene includes a table set for breakfast, in which case, it’s there somewhere). > > \*\* toast cut into strips (3-4 per slice of bread) CS Lewis wrote about it in his autobiography and says one of the main duties in the morning was to go to bathroom and sit on the toilet so the seat was warm when the older kid woke up and was ready to go. They were also supposed to start a fire and toast bread over the fire. If the younger student displeased the older student they would be caned by the older student. Depending on which older student the younger kid got it could be horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/31 "2018-07-11T14:40:02Z")
Are you sure it was C.S. Lewis? Roald Dahl gave pretty much the exact same account. He also used it as the basis for one of his short fiction stories: _Galloping Foxley_, adapted as an episode of the Tales of the Unexpected TV series. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/32 "2018-07-11T14:51:10Z")
It’s a staple of tales set in the public schools (aka, exclusive private schools), from Tom Brown’s Schooldays onwards. Something toasted (with plenty of butter) has likewise been a staple for filling an afternoon gap, whether it’s a doorstep slice of bread, or muffin or crumpet. Still is in plenty of homes. I’m quite partial to a Marmite crumpet myself, especially on a dank winter afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/33 "2018-07-11T14:59:09Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The word faggott for homosexual appears to have evolved in the following way: > > First meaning, a bundle of sticks used for making a fire. Mentioned several times above. > > This became a slang word for a skinny, boney woman. > > Then the slang shifted to mean an effeminate man. > > Then shifted to mean homosexual. And thereafter “inconsiderate douchebag like a Harley rider.” ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/34 "2018-07-11T19:10:27Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The word faggott for homosexual appears to have evolved in the following way: > > First meaning, a bundle of sticks used for making a fire. Mentioned several times above. > > This became a slang word for a skinny, boney woman. > > Then the slang shifted to mean an effeminate man. > > Then shifted to mean homosexual. I’ve also heard a derivation from the ‘bundle of sticks used to start a fire’ to ‘bundles of sticks used to burn homosexuals at the stake’ to referring to a derogratory term for homosexuals directly. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/35 "2018-07-11T19:14:20Z")
I saw the same, but not from any reliable source. You can’t believe everything you read in comics. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/36 "2018-07-11T19:20:38Z")
So everyone in ancient Rome, a well as all fascists, must have been homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/37 "2018-07-11T19:39:36Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > So everyone in ancient Rome, a well as all fascists, must have been homosexual. Only the lictors. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/38 "2018-07-11T20:20:17Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Are you sure it was C.S. Lewis? Roald Dahl gave pretty much the exact same account. He also used it as the basis for one of his short fiction stories: _Galloping Foxley_, adapted as an episode of the Tales of the Unexpected TV series. You are correct, I was mixed up. At Lewis’s school the older boys were not assigned one young boy, but could order any young boy to do anything, the chore Lewis mentions is boot polishing. He also mentions that there were some young boys known as Tart who were used as catamites which is where I had assumed the other slang meaning came from. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/39 "2018-07-11T21:09:24Z")
My father who went to a minor public school in sixties to early seventies told me that when he went in to the school the practice was still in use, but had been banned by the time he left. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684/40 "2018-07-11T23:12:58Z")
Is the term “fag” still used to refer to a log (such as you would put on a fire)? In _Return of the King_, Tolkien wrote of Merry or Pippin or whomever putting too many fags on the fire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-meanings-of-fag-in-uk-slang/817684.md?page=3)