# Other than Rhode Island, which other states deem life prisoners 'dead'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 25, 2018, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778 "2018-05-25T05:17:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/1 "2018-05-25T05:17:43Z")
Hi Other than Rhode Island, which other states deem prisoners serving life sentences ‘dead’ accordion to state law and which law is that? > **[Court rules inmate serving life can’t sue because he’s ‘dead’](https://nypost.com/2018/05/25/court-rules-inmate-serving-life-cant-sue-because-hes-dead/)** > > PROVIDENCE, R.I. — Rhode Island’s Supreme Court has ruled that a man serving life in prison can’t sue the state for an attack by a fellow inmate because, under state law, he’s con… The court cited a state law that reads in part: “Every person imprisoned in the adult correctional institutions for life shall … be deemed to be dead in all respects, as if his or her natural death had taken place at the time of conviction.” ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/2 "2018-05-25T06:00:54Z")
In all respects? Dead people have no or very few rights? Is a spouse considered a widow(er) can s/he remarry with no divorce? Is their estate settled? And what if they’re later exonerated? ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/3 "2018-05-25T06:07:52Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi > Other than Rhode Island, which other states deem prisoners serving life sentences ‘dead’ accordion to state law and which law is that? > > [Court: Inmate serving life, Dana Gallop can't sue because he's 'dead'](https://nypost.com/2018/05/25/court-rules-inmate-serving-life-cant-sue-because-hes-dead/) > The court cited a state law that reads in part: “Every person imprisoned in the adult correctional institutions for life shall … be deemed to be dead in all respects, as if his or her natural death had taken place at the time of conviction.” From the Providence article linked in your link: > [@](#): > > Gallop’s lawyer, Ronald J. Resmini, called it “a very disappointing ruling” and dismissed the state’s civil-death statute as “moronic”. > “We’re the only state left with the archaic law,” Resmini said. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/4 "2018-05-25T06:11:57Z")
[Here’s the provision](http://webserver.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE13/13-6/13-6-1.HTM). It seems to have been adopted originally in 1909, but amended many times since then. There’s a saver so that “the bond of matrimony shall not be dissolved”, so the spouse would need to divorce before remarrying. But on the face of it it does look as though it would allow the next-of-kin to proceed to take out a grant of probate and distribute the estate as though the prisoner had died. Does any doper know if that is what actually happens in Rhode Island? ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/5 "2018-05-25T06:14:22Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > In all respects? Dead people have no or very few rights? > > Is a spouse considered a widow(er) can s/he remarry with no divorce? Is their estate settled? And what if they’re later exonerated? > **[Court rules inmate is 'civilly dead' and can't sue ACI over 2010 attack](https://www.providencejournal.com/story/news/courts/2018/05/23/court-rules-inmate-is-civilly-dead-and-cant-sue-aci-over-2010-attack/12152347007/)** > > PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- The state Supreme Court recently ruled that a Boston gang member serving multiple life sentences is considered civilly dead under state law and cannot sue the Adult Correctional I… (linked to in OP’s linked article) > [@](#): > > The court decision cited a state law that specifies, in part, that “Every person imprisoned in the adult correctional institutions for life shall, with respect to all rights of property, to the bond of matrimony and to all civil rights and relations of any nature whatsoever, be deemed to be dead in all respects, as if his or her natural death had taken place at the time of conviction.” I wonder if its actually applied on a regular basis or was dug up for this matter - it sounds like the kind of law drafted by men wearing wigs and bearing muskets; I have difficulty believing a modern society applies this law as presented by The Providence Journal and NYPost. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/6 "2018-05-25T09:55:38Z")
And does it mean that the relatives get the life-insurance payout when their man goes to jail? We have a similarly offensive kind of enforcement here: if you murder your parents, the state takes your share of the estate away from the survivors. Because it’s proceeds of crime. No way the grandchildren or siblings who just lost their parents are going to get that money… ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/7 "2018-05-25T11:01:11Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > And does it mean that the relatives get the life-insurance payout when their man goes to jail? > We have a similarly offensive kind of enforcement here: if you murder your parents, the state takes your share of the estate away from the survivors. Because it’s proceeds of crime. No way the grandchildren or siblings who just lost their parents are going to get that money… The common law position is that you can’t inherit from someone you have murdered. Their estate is distributed as if you had died before your victim. Which means that it could, of course, go to your children. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/8 "2018-05-25T17:32:02Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > The common law position is that you can’t inherit from someone you have murdered. Their estate is distributed as if you had died before your victim. Which means that it could, of course, go to your children. Someone simply has to have made **that** into a murder mystery. Grandchild kills grandparent and frames his widower father for the crime so the grandson inherits. Or a man kills one of his parents and frames the other parent for the crime so the child inherits. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/9 "2018-05-25T19:35:45Z")
Wow, what an archaic law. Hard to believe it’s still on the books. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/10 "2018-05-25T20:34:15Z")
It’s actually not that “archaic” in terms of when it was adopted, since it’s just over 100 years old (adopted in 1909). It’s quite archaic in terms of how it treats the convicted person. More to the point, I suspect it’s constitutionally suspect under the Due Process clauses of the Constitution of the United States of America. I may later today see if I can dig up the actual decision from the Rhode Island Supreme Court and see what they said about that, if anything. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/11 "2018-05-25T22:10:53Z")
Wouldn’t someone have to challenge it in Federal court to get a ruling on its US Constitutionality? Generally state courts only rule on their own constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/12 "2018-05-26T01:20:11Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > The common law position is that you can’t inherit from someone you have murdered. Their estate is distributed as if you had died before your victim. Which means that it could, of course, go to your children. And even the legislative provision here wasn’t originally interpreted to mean that the government took the money away from the kids. But the state attorney took it to court, and the lawyer involved were quite proud of his win. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/13 "2018-05-26T02:45:24Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Someone simply has to have made **that** into a murder mystery. Grandchild kills grandparent and frames his widower father for the crime so the grandson inherits. Or a man kills one of his parents and frames the other parent for the crime so the child inherits. I don’t think it was Christie, oddly enough, but there was one. Early 20th century - between the wars or immediately post WWII … Male ‘amateur’ detective, possibly a woman author - Mignon Eberhart? No. Not an Ellery Queen, though. There was a blind mute woman who was the key to the mystery; she was a witness, but they - the police? - did not take her seriously. The scent of vanilla? The killer was … 12 year old boy … but I’m not sure if inheritance was the motive. This is going to drive me crazy, now. Where’s the “Name this book” thread … ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/14 "2018-05-26T03:02:13Z")
I was wrong, it _was_ Ellery Queen, [The Tragedy of Y](http://https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/909303.The_Tragedy_of_Y). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/15 "2018-05-26T04:28:38Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Wouldn’t someone have to challenge it in Federal court to get a ruling on its US Constitutionality? Generally state courts only rule on their own constitution. That’s often true, but you may raise U.S. constitutional issues in a state court: Unless Congress clearly provides otherwise, state and municipal courts enjoy concurrent jurisdiction over claims arising under federal law. _Gulf Offshore Co. v. Mobil Oil Corp_. (1981), 453 U.S. 473; _California v. Arizona_ (1979), 440 U.S. 59. Nothing in the concept of the federal system prevents state courts from enforcing rights created by federal law. _Charles Dowd Box Co. v. Courtney_ (1962), 368 U.S. 502. The Supreme Court of Ohio has recognized that the courts of this state enjoy such power. _Herbst v. Resolution Trust Corp_. (1993), 66 Ohio St.3d 8; _Elek v. Huntington Natl. Bank_ (1991), 60 Ohio St.3d 135. From _Muhammad v. Treasury Dept., Internal Revenue Serv_., 167 Ohio Misc.2d 1 (2010). ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/16 "2018-05-26T13:56:38Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Wouldn’t someone have to challenge it in Federal court to get a ruling on its US Constitutionality? Generally state courts only rule on their own constitution. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > That’s often true, but you may raise U.S. constitutional issues in a state court: > > Unless Congress clearly provides otherwise, state and municipal courts enjoy concurrent jurisdiction over claims arising under federal law. _Gulf Offshore Co. v. Mobil Oil Corp_. (1981), 453 U.S. 473; _California v. Arizona_ (1979), 440 U.S. 59. Nothing in the concept of the federal system prevents state courts from enforcing rights created by federal law. _Charles Dowd Box Co. v. Courtney_ (1962), 368 U.S. 502. The Supreme Court of Ohio has recognized that the courts of this state enjoy such power. _Herbst v. Resolution Trust Corp_. (1993), 66 Ohio St.3d 8; _Elek v. Huntington Natl. Bank_ (1991), 60 Ohio St.3d 135. > > From _Muhammad v. Treasury Dept., Internal Revenue Serv_., 167 Ohio Misc.2d 1 (2010). To follow-up: IF the issue of constitutionality under the provisions of the US Constitution was raised before the Rhode Island courts, then the losing side at the RISC could file a Petition for Writ of Certiorari with the SCotUS, asking that court to address the federal constitutional issues previously raised. If the issue was NOT raised in the Rhode Island courts, then some party would most likely have to file a federal lawsuit to have the constitutionality under the federal constitution determined. However, something in the back of my brain tickles me into thinking that the SCotUS could hear the appeal directly anyway under certain limited circumstances. It’s sadly been too long since I was dealing with such stuff for me to recall if the back of my brain is right, or just playing games with me. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/17 "2018-05-26T19:58:57Z")
So if a prison guard murders a prisoner, it’s not a crime? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/18 "2018-05-26T20:27:33Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So if a prison guard murders a prisoner, it’s not a crime? Too simple a concept. Not enough to fill out a 1:30 movie. (We are talking movie here, right? Not, … um, in real life.) First the guard (a woman) had been framed by the future prisoner for his murder. She’s found guilty. Turns out the guy killed someone else to obtain the body. He’s found guilty of _that_ crime and sentenced to life. The guard gets her job back in the same prison in RI. _Now_ she can kill him. She’ll be played by [Ashley Judd](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0150377/) in _Double Jeopardy 2_. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/19 "2018-05-26T20:39:30Z")
You left out the torrid love affair with the hunky warden. Mustn’t forget the torrid love affair. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778/20 "2018-05-27T02:22:07Z")
Getting back to the jurisdiction issue, isn’t it implicit in the supremacy clause? Article VI, clause 2 says that the judges of the state courts are bound by the federal Constitution. Doesn’t that mean they have jurisdiction to hear a claim based on the US Constitution? For instance, don’t the state criminal courts routinely rule on issues of federal constitutional law, when they decide issues like Miranda warnings, and search and seizure law? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-rhode-island-which-other-states-deem-life-prisoners-dead/814778.md?page=2)