# Other than Waldgirmes, what other towns east of the Rhine were held by the Romans until their abandonment by the Romans in the 5th century?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-waldgirmes-what-other-towns-east-of-the-rhine-were-held-by-the-romans-until-their-abandonment-by-the-romans-in-the-5th-century/970152>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [August 23, 2022, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-waldgirmes-what-other-towns-east-of-the-rhine-were-held-by-the-romans-until-their-abandonment-by-the-romans-in-the-5th-century/970152 "2022-08-23T07:54:26Z")\
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**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\
**Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-waldgirmes-what-other-towns-east-of-the-rhine-were-held-by-the-romans-until-their-abandonment-by-the-romans-in-the-5th-century/970152/1 "2022-08-23T07:54:26Z")

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Other than Waldgirmes, what other towns east of the Rhine were held by the Romans until their abandonment by the Romans in the 5th century?

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**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\
**Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-waldgirmes-what-other-towns-east-of-the-rhine-were-held-by-the-romans-until-their-abandonment-by-the-romans-in-the-5th-century/970152/2 "2022-08-23T08:22:09Z")

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I see towns like Ladenburg and Engers but I’m not sure if they were held until the end of Roman-occupied Germany (Limes) (as opposed to unoccupied Magna Germania )

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**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\
**Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-waldgirmes-what-other-towns-east-of-the-rhine-were-held-by-the-romans-until-their-abandonment-by-the-romans-in-the-5th-century/970152/3 "2022-08-23T12:41:56Z")

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I don’t have an answer myself, though I know that the Romans did some mining in what is now Westphalia, but I don’t know if they really settled there or if they only built temporary camps. But can you read German? Because I found a thread on a German history board that discusses almost your exact question. I don’t have time now to skim it for answers (it’s a long thread), but maybe I’ll return later.

> **[Rechtsrheinische Siedeltätigkeit über 9 hinaus (und Waldgirmes)](https://www.geschichtsforum.de/thema/rechtsrheinische-siedeltaetigkeit-ueber-9-hinaus-und-waldgirmes.48629/)**
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> Nach dem, was wir über die Siedlungsweise der Germanen wissen (Gehöfte, Weiler), können wir eigentlich ausschließen, daß sie eine aufgegebene...

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**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\
**Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-waldgirmes-what-other-towns-east-of-the-rhine-were-held-by-the-romans-until-their-abandonment-by-the-romans-in-the-5th-century/970152/4 "2022-08-23T13:48:29Z")

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Yes I can read it. Thanks EinsteinsHund.

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**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\
**Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-than-waldgirmes-what-other-towns-east-of-the-rhine-were-held-by-the-romans-until-their-abandonment-by-the-romans-in-the-5th-century/970152/5 "2022-08-23T14:09:29Z")

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**Eine** Siedlung ist bekannt (Waldgirmes), die wurde aufgegeben. Falls es weitere gegeben hat, sind sie jedenfalls noch nicht entdeckt."

So that answers the question about Waldgirmes.

As for Germania libra or unoccupied Germania:

## “So ließen die Römer rechtsrheinisch ihr Vieh weiden, betrieben einige Bergwerke und Steinbrüche e.t.c., so lange die militärische Lage dergleichen erlaubte. Bis in die Spätantike hinein wurden Unterworfene in den Provinzen angesiedelt, um deren Arbeitskraft nutzen zu können.”

“Es sind auch umgekehrte Fälle bekannt, wo Rom sich aus vorher beherrschten Gebieten zurückziehen musste. Die bekanntesten, nördlichen Vorfälle betreffen das rechtsrheinische Dekumatland und das transdanubische Dakien. Archäologisch lassen sich in beiden Fällen nach Aufgabe der Gebiete kaum noch Nachweise für „römisches Leben“ oder Kontinuitäten feststellen.”  
So that answers my question on the continued occupation of areas east of the Rhein.