# Other words like forte? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 27, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365 "2005-04-27T14:15:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/1 "2005-04-27T14:15:11Z")
The pronounciation of **forte** is rather unusual. Here’s the dictionary’s take on it: > [@](#): > > The word forte, coming from French fort, should properly be pronounced with one syllable, like the English word fort. Common usage, however, prefers the two-syllable pronunciation, (fôr’tā’), which has been influenced possibly by the music term forte borrowed from Italian. **The result is a delicate situation; speakers who are aware of the origin of the word may wish to continue to pronounce it as one syllable but at an increasing risk of puzzling their listeners.** Are there other words that could have the bolded bit in the quote apply? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/2 "2005-04-27T14:22:18Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > The pronounciation of **forte** is rather unusual. Here’s the dictionary’s take on it: > Are there other words that could have the bolded bit in the quote apply? In some senses, yes: “Gay Paree,” for example. The word’s origin would lead to the pronunciation of “Pair-ee’,” but English speakers, mangling the French, correctly pronounce it as “Pair’-iss.” Or you could look at the word “child,” which was originally pluralized as “childer.” At some point English stopped using the “-er” ending to act as a plural, and so people interpreted the word “childer” to be singular and re-pluralized it as “children.” Now people don’t use “-ren” as a plural form, so some people don’t recognize “children” as plural and re-re-pluralize it: all God’s chilluns got the blues. If you were to recognize the origin of the word “child,” you might pluralize it as “childer,” but only at the risk of people not understanding you. [This article](http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19971114) provides some more information, as well as another example: I’m not going to pronounce the first punctuation mark in this sentence as “Ah-pahs-STROFF.” And it provides a useful final paragraph: > [@](#): > > None of this, of course, makes FOR-tay a correct pronunciation; it comes from a mistake of one kind or another. But there is no pronunciation of forte ‘strong point’ that is etymologically acceptable, so it comes down to a question of choosing which error you want to go with. FORT is favored by the more conservative, but is much less familiar; FOR-tay is far more common but is thought to be wrong by people who bother expressing opinions on such matters. The choice is yours. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/3 "2005-04-27T14:29:14Z")
[This article](http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxwordsw.html) has some other examples that might qualify. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/4 "2005-04-27T14:30:58Z")
I resolve the situation by using Italian _forte_ rather than French _forte_. One could argue that “forte” is English, so I’m wrong using either. But what my listeners don’t know is that I’m speaking the italics therefore using a foreign word rather than an English one derived from French. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/5 "2005-04-27T14:43:25Z")
Not exactly the same, but “Homage” may fit the bill. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/6 "2005-04-27T14:52:08Z")
Seems to me like it’s just a question of pronouncing words borrowed from other languages (often French). Sometimes French pronunciation is maintained (more often in Britain, I believe), and sometimes it isn’t. > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > [This article](http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxwordsw.html) has some other examples that might qualify. This article seems to mix together disparate things indescriminately. In fact, upon review, several of the pages by Mark Israel do that. (_E.g._, confusing prepositions with phrasal verb paticles.) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/7 "2005-04-27T14:58:04Z")
> [@etmiller](#): > > Seems to me like it’s just a question of pronouncing words borrowed from other languages (often French). Sometimes French pronunciation is maintained (more often in Britain, I believe), and sometimes it isn’t. > This article seems to mix together disparate things indescriminately. In fact, upon review, several of the pages by Mark Israel do that. (_E.g._, confusing prepositions with phrasal verb paticles.) As to the first point, I think you’re right (although as the article points out, in French it’d be _fort_, not _forte_–no reason for putting it in feminine form). We “correctly” ask for an oar durve, but “incorrectly” compliment the host on his oar durvez. As to the second point (re: my second linked article), you’re also right–it just has a bunch of interesting examples, so I was throwing it out there for that. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/8 "2005-04-27T17:38:37Z")
_short-lived_ Not one syllable vs. two like in your example, but the sound of the 'i". ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/9 "2005-04-27T18:21:54Z")
I’d like to nominate the enigmatic “resume.” In the sense of that paper with you qualifications for a job spelled out and not in the sense of starting something again. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/10 "2005-04-27T18:24:46Z")
> [@etmiller](#): > > Seems to me like it’s just a question of pronouncing words borrowed from other languages (often French). Sometimes French pronunciation is maintained (more often in Britain, I believe) No way. Brits mangle French words so much it makes Americans look positively cosmopolitan. Listen to how they pronounce “garage” - they rhyme it with “carriage”! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/11 "2005-04-27T18:27:42Z")
Rodeo. It’s either ROAD-ee-oh, so all the people who go watch cowboys ride bulls are right, or road-AY-oh, so all those people with the fancy cars on Rodeo Drive are right. They can’t both be right. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/12 "2005-04-27T18:34:02Z")
Gaudere. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/13 "2005-04-27T18:53:19Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Rodeo. It’s either ROAD-ee-oh, so all the people who go watch cowboys ride bulls are right, or road-AY-oh, so all those people with the fancy cars on Rodeo Drive are right. They can’t both be right. I can’t figure out whether you’re trying to wind me up or take the wind out of my sails. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/14 "2005-04-27T19:53:59Z")
Most obvious example: **victuals**. The word is correctly pronounced “vittles,” but that would probably get a you correction or laughs in most circles. (The OED has only the single pronunciation, BTW) There is a class of words whose spelling has influenced their pronunciation: the original word was pronounced one way, but, for some reason, the spelling had extra words and slowly an alternate pronunciation was added. Some of these include: **often** (the “t” is properly silent; UK usage pronounces it) **comfortable** (original pronunciation “comf-ter-bul” – three syllables, not four) \*\*kiln \*\* (technically, it’s pronunced “kill,” but the “n” has found its voice in common usage). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/15 "2005-04-27T19:55:21Z")
Forgot **quay** , pronounced “key” ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/16 "2005-04-27T20:20:20Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The word is correctly pronounced “vittles,” but that would probably get a you correction or laughs in most circles. (The OED has only the single pronunciation, BTW) Maybe I’m showing my southern hick ignorance more than anything else, but I’ve only heard this word pronounced “vittles.” I did happen to know that it’s spelled that way, I suspect most people who say that word don’t. Are there people who pronounce it “vic-tuals”? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/17 "2005-04-27T21:45:55Z")
**Conduit** , technically “correct” pronunciation, _KAHN dit_, typical pronunciation (even by knowledgeable speakers) _KAHN doo it_, or, more rarely, _KAHN dwit_. **Buoy** , “correct” pronunciation, _BOY_, increasingly frequent pronunciation _BOO ee_. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/18 "2005-04-27T21:50:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Or you could look at the word “child,” which was originally pluralized as “childer.” At some point English stopped using the “-er” ending to act as a plural, and so people interpreted the word “childer” to be singular and re-pluralized it as “children.” Really? Childer was once a valid plural form of child? My grandma used to say that. I just thought it was the local dialect. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/19 "2005-04-27T21:50:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Are there people who pronounce it “vic-tuals”? Jed Clampett. ---
**Author:** ![ReuvenB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@ReuvenB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReuvenB)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365/20 "2005-04-27T21:59:10Z")
Does cache qualify? Properly pronounced the same as cash, popularly pronounced as “cashay.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-like-forte/301365.md?page=2)