# Other words that contain "ph" pronounced as "vee" other than STEPHEN **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 14, 2002, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954 "2002-07-14T22:25:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DrStevo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DrStevo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrStevo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2002, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/1 "2002-07-14T22:25:02Z")
Are there any other words that contain “ph” pronounced as “vee” other than STEPHEN. This has been something I have asked supposed intellectuals for years with no results. Maybe I have finally found the correct forum for such an inquiry. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2002, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/2 "2002-07-14T22:28:46Z")
As as _real_ intellectual, let me note “phial” is an alternate way of spelling vial. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/3 "2002-07-14T22:40:19Z")
I’ve always pronounced Stephen as stee-fen. Is this incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2002, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/4 "2002-07-14T22:46:43Z")
in germanic languages f, v and w (and “ph” in english) are pronounced somwhat similarly. (in dutch and german this is more so than with english). the difference is in the varying contact (or lack of) between the upper teeth and the lower lip. the “ph” in stephen is more like an ‘f’ than a ‘v’, i think. the long ‘e’ just makes it sound more v-like. so other “ph” words such as: sophisticate staph prophyl trophy could be said to be pronouced with a “v” sound too, depending on who’s doing the pronouncing. (kind of like the “h” in human) ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Doctor\_Goo\_Fee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Goo_Fee)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2002, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/5 "2002-07-14T22:48:48Z")
i meant to write “prophylactic” instead of “prophyl” ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2002, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/6 "2002-07-14T23:55:45Z")
Yeah, but something stopped you from finishing [rimshot] ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/7 "2002-07-15T00:35:37Z")
Speaking of the “F = V” strangeness, I’ve read that “of” is the only word in English where the letter F is pronounced with a V sound. But, many such factoids are later proven wrong…are there others? ---
**Author:** ![DrStevo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DrStevo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrStevo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/8 "2002-07-15T00:52:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KarlGauss \* > \*\*As as _real_ intellectual, let me note “phial” is an alternate way of spelling vial. \*\* Main Entry: phi·al Pronunciation: 'fI(-&)l Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Latin phiala, from Greek phialE Date: 14th century : VIAL I looked this one up in all eagerness but sadly found that the PH in PHIAL is pronounced as an “eff” not a “vee” THE SEARCH GOES ON ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/9 "2002-07-15T00:58:57Z")
My cousin is named Stephen, pronounced Steff-en. He goes by Steve most of the time though. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/10 "2002-07-15T02:06:46Z")
> [@](#): > > the “ph” in stephen is more like an ‘f’ than a ‘v’, i think. the long ‘e’ just makes it sound more v-like. Not in my case. My real first name is “Stephen”, and it’s always been pronounced “Steven”. Nothin’ “f”-like about it. For ll I know, that may have been he original pronunciation, but in 21st century America (and back to mid-20th century), the actual pronunciation o the name is the same as if it had a “v” in it. And no, I haven’t been able to find any other cases of “ph” = “v” yet. ---
**Author:** ![mandielise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@mandielise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandielise)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/11 "2002-07-15T02:10:47Z")
The difference in pronunciation of the name Stephen is mostly a question of the length of the first “e.” If it’s long (as in “meet”) the “ph” is pronounced /v/. If it’s short (as in “met”) the “ph” is pronounced /f/. It’s all about vowel length and voiced consonants. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/12 "2002-07-15T03:49:09Z")
Phy do you ask such silly questions? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrStevo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DrStevo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrStevo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/13 "2002-07-15T04:14:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mandielise \* > \*\*The difference in pronunciation of the name Stephen is mostly a question of the length of the first “e.” If it’s long (as in “meet”) the “ph” is pronounced /v/. If it’s short (as in “met”) the “ph” is pronounced /f/. > > It’s all about vowel length and voiced consonants. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > \*\*And no, I haven’t been able to find any other cases of “ph” = “v” yet. \*\* Thank you all for your learned & well thought responses (I was afraid there was no answer & you have confirmed my fears) I will venture to pose another pet query under a new thread when I am more prepared to word it properly (to avoid confusion). ---
**Author:** ![robwrigley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@robwrigley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robwrigley)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/14 "2002-07-15T05:38:48Z")
Uhm…its because that spelling of the name Steven is dervide from the French spelling and pronunciation. Rob ---
**Author:** ![kase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@kase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kase)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/15 "2002-07-15T08:17:27Z")
how about phone? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/16 "2002-07-15T08:19:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doctor Goo Fee \* > \*\*in germanic languages f, v and w (and “ph” in english) are pronounced somwhat similarly. (in dutch and german this is more so than with english). the difference is in the varying contact (or lack of) between the upper teeth and the lower lip. > \*\* No, not quite. The difference is whether the consonant is voiced or unvoiced. “v” and “f” are pretty much formed in exactly the same place in the mouth. The only difference is that “v” is voiced and the “f” is unvoiced. The same duality exists with the letters b/p, th(y)/th(igh), k/g, d/t, z/s, etc… “ph” is not a separate phoneme in English. It’s just another spelling of “f” (or occassionlly “v,” as we have seen.) The fact that normally unvoiced sounds occassionally get voiced in English is completely normal, and usually dictated by the context of other sounds surrounding phonemes. For example, the “s” in “cats” is pronounced as an “s.” However, the “s” in “lads” gets a “z” pronuncation. Also, as the “f” in “of” gets “v”, sometimes "v"s in Englished get unvoiced. To wit: “I _have_ to go to a meeting.” Chances are, you pronounce that “have” as “haff.” Why? I suspect because in rapid speech it’s easier to slur two unvoiced sounds (the “f” and “t”) together rather than pronounce the “v” as voiced and the following “t” unvoiced. So where does this leave us with “Stephen”? I don’t exactly know. Instinctively, it seems to me that a voiced “v” following a long “e” sounds much more natural than an unvoiced “f” following the “e.” Conversely, if pronounced with a short “e,” the “f” sounds more natural than the “v.” Why? That’s for the researchers to figure out. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/17 "2002-07-15T11:41:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Uhm…its because that spelling of the name Steven is dervide from the French spelling and pronunciation. Uh … Étienne? > [@](#): > > how about phone? In English, “phone” is pronounced with an “f” sound. In Anglo-American culture, “Stephen” is usually an alternative spelling for “Steven” and is pronounced the same. There are some who pronounce it like “Steffen,” but that pronunciation is derived from non-English sources, such as German, in which the name takes a form such as “Stefan.” ---
**Author:** ![robwrigley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@robwrigley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robwrigley)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/18 "2002-07-15T14:01:47Z")
Etienne? I’ve met French folks with the Stefan spelling. That’s German? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/19 "2002-07-15T23:53:56Z")
That’s right. Étienne is the French form of Steven. The Stefan form is from Germanic languages. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954/20 "2002-07-16T07:46:16Z")
In England an alternative pronunciation of `nephew` is `nevew`. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/other-words-that-contain-ph-pronounced-as-vee-other-than-stephen/118954.md?page=2)