# O'Toole is out as opposition leader (Canadian politics) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 1, 2022, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720 "2022-02-01T02:04:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/1 "2022-02-01T02:04:46Z")
O’Toole, leader of the federal Conservative Party of Canada is facing a caucus revolt. He might be facing a [leadership review vote as early as Wednesday.](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-otoole-faces-caucus-revolt-as-35-mps-sign-letter-calling-for/) > MPs would then have to elect an interim caucus leader while the Conservative Party calls a leadership race. Sources say at least 63 of the elected 119 Conservative MPs are willing to vote against Mr. O’Toole. I can’t quite tell if this internal revolt is because Mr. O’Toole stood with the nazis and white supremacists in the recent fake trucker protest in Ottawa, or if he did NOT stand with them enough. Probably both. (No, this topic is NOT similar to “Do you discuss politics with opposite-leaning family member from July 2016.” Stupid Discourse) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/2 "2022-02-01T02:10:06Z")
No surprise. Even in our current leadership vacuum O’Toole is a disappointment. The only good thing about him is he makes Trudeau look good by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/3 "2022-02-01T02:52:42Z")
> “This isn’t about leadership anymore. It’s a fracture in the party,” one MP, who spoke to Global News on the condition they not be named, said Monday evening. I think they may have lost control over the nutbag wing of the party. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/4 "2022-02-01T04:24:14Z")
Well if I’m a Liberal strategist and a majority of the discontents actually are conversion therapy supporters it’s like Christmas all over again. I mean it’s hot garbage for the country but it’s up to opposition parties to present themselves as the government in waiting. Ah well…too bad Michael Chong will never win the leadership contest. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/5 "2022-02-01T04:41:50Z")
Agreed, Chong sounds like a pretty good choice, but as a Red Tory and a (gasp!) ethnic person, this would not fly with the large chunk of the conservatives who support the far right nutbars. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/6 "2022-02-01T05:37:26Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Ah well…too bad Michael Chong will never win the leadership contest. I joined the party just to vote for him, back when Harper called it quits. He just barely outpolled the most blatantly racist candidate. That’s when it became clear the majority of the party had left me completely behind. I’m not at all surprised that Plenty O’Toole is on the outs, there were people talking about this within a day of losing the last election. The current party supporters don’t quite seem to get it, that you need to have a leader spend at least a few years in Opposition, so we can see what they are really like, before they can become PM. O’Toole did so much flip-flopping, no one had any idea what he’d actually do if elected. You’ve got to establish an actual brand if you want to win, even if it’s an awful brand. I’m looking forward to the complete collapse of this travesty of a party over the next few years. Maybe something worthwhile will rise from its ashes in a decade or so. Until then, I guess I’m flipping a coin between Liberals and NDP. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/7 "2022-02-01T13:32:33Z")
I think the CPC is in real trouble. They’ll almost certainly bring in somebody with much stronger social conservative values. As a result, they may (more on that in a second) win by larger margins in AB and SK, and get wrecked elsewhere because social conservatism is just not popular in Canada (in fact most Canadians are opposed to social conservatism). The biggest problem for the CPC though lay in an outright revolt and people leaving the party to vote PPC in the next election. There is real possibility of a much larger right-wing vote split. Personally, I think this is potentially good. I think there are enough policy differences in a center-right vs far-right for there to be two parties to counter balance a center-left and left party. Obviously, I don’t like there being a far-right party (I hate Nazis and fascism more than you can possibly imagine), but I certainly don’t want far-right ideals in a mainstream party. It would be better for them to split off from the CPC which can then become more than an Angry West party. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/8 "2022-02-01T13:35:36Z")
On the flip side, the saving grace for the CPC is Trudeau has had a couple of terms and Canadians often oust a party after a few terms. Plus, people are exhausted from pandemic restrictions, and right or wrong I think some of that will be blamed on Trudeau. A CPC “Let’s return to a careful normal” could be appealing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/9 "2022-02-01T15:49:21Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > A CPC “Let’s return to a careful normal” could be appealing. With the right leader. A populist leader trying to appeal to the lunatic fringe currently pooping in the flowerbeds and demanding free soup in Ottawa is not going to win a federal election. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/10 "2022-02-01T15:52:02Z")
I agree. If they put forward Pierre (I forget his last name), then I think it will be a train wreck of an election for them. Of course, probably plenty of time until the next election as well. I don’t think Trudeau will make the same mistake of calling an unnecessary snap election again. The last one was pretty close to a disaster for him. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/11 "2022-02-01T16:15:06Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > A CPC “Let’s return to a careful normal” could be appealing. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > With the right leader. A populist leader trying to appeal to the lunatic fringe currently pooping in the flowerbeds and demanding free soup in Ottawa is not going to win a federal election. Yeah, this is the big problem. They’re ousting O’Toole because he’s not SoCon enough. Who can they find that will quell the revolt in their caucus, while also appealing to more voters, who already thought O’Toole was _too_ SoCon? It’s an impossible situation for them. Anyone who can win a leadership race simply can’t win a general election on their own merits. The Pandemic election was probably the most obvious case of real-world differences between the parties I’ve ever seen, with some of the Government policies being actually, honestly unpopular with a lot of people, and even with all that, the CPC still couldn’t win. I can’t imagine Trudeau screwing up the first post-Pandemic election so badly as to lose to anyone I’ve heard mentioned as a possible new CPC leader. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/12 "2022-02-01T16:32:49Z")
I was reading online (I cannot recall where now, sorry) that the primary issue leading for the review is the forced party vote on conversion therapy. There’s a group that are very upset about this issue. If this is true, then this is really bad for the CPC. Being against the conversion therapy ban would have to be one of the losingest issues. If they elect somebody who is pro repealing the ban, then they’re doomed come election time. Found it: [O’Toole faces caucus revolt as 35 MPs sign letter calling for leadership-review vote - The Globe and Mail](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-otoole-faces-caucus-revolt-as-35-mps-sign-letter-calling-for/) > “A source close to Mr. O’Toole said the push to get rid of him is being led by MPs who are angry that Mr. O’Toole decided the party would support the Liberals’ ban on conversion therapy.” > “Two sources said at least 63 of the elected 119 Conservative MPs are willing to vote against Mr. O’Toole” Aaaaand I just noticed it is the link in the OP. LOL. That’s where I got it from in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/13 "2022-02-01T17:19:03Z")
National Post has an article out now, quoting O’Toole: > O’Toole said there are two roads for the Tories to take. “One is the road of Randy Hillier and Derek Sloan,” he says. “It is angry, negative, and extreme.” > > The other road, he writes, is about building a more inclusive party and recognizing the need to change, which has been O’Toole’s message since taking the reins of the party in 2020 and again after last year’s election loss. If O’Toole is staking his future on building a more inclusive party, he has lost. I give him credit for trying though, and for framing it in these terms. Negativity and Hate will win the day, I predict. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/14 "2022-02-01T17:29:34Z")
I don’t think it’s hate necessarily. I think it’s resentment with a deeply rooted in-group disdain for name Trudeau. Though given the vitriol female MPs and cabinet ministers have had to put up with it add in a massive dose of pseudo-masculinity/misogyny. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/15 "2022-02-01T17:32:50Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Being against the conversion therapy ban would have to be one of the losingest issues. If they elect somebody who is pro repealing the ban, then they’re doomed come election time. I agree. The position of essentially “let’s allow legal torture of homosexuals” is not something to base an election platform on. And Pierre Poilievre (aka Skippy), is a horrible choice, with a lot of nasty baggage. A man who my mother (rest her soul) always appended with “that fucking weasel”. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/16 "2022-02-01T17:43:07Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And Pierre Poilievre (aka Skippy), is a horrible choice, with a lot of nasty baggage. A man who my mother (rest her soul) always appended with “that fucking weasel”. He was part of Harper’s government for how many years? And I still can’t think of anything he’s done other than “score cheap points using lying and propaganda attacks”. This is worse that JT getting the leadership nod with _no_ track record. Poilievre has a track record that is _actually negative_. They would literally have a better chance of getting my vote by nominating someone I’ve _never heard of before._ ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/17 "2022-02-01T17:53:39Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And Pierre Poilievre (aka Skippy), is a horrible choice, with a lot of nasty baggage. A man who my mother (rest her soul) always appended with “that fucking weasel”. I heartily endorse this. I remember at the beginning of the pandemic, PP lambasted Trudeau for every economic policy without providing a single alternative. I swear he had a stopwatch going to see how much airtime he could get. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/18 "2022-02-01T18:00:23Z")
That quote is from O’Toole’s Twitter feed; five tweets setting out his position. He wants to be the optimistic Jack Layton for the Tories, it seems. > ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/19 "2022-02-01T18:04:31Z")
And you know, with the slight lean into classic blue collar worker demographic, he has (had) a chance to take space left behind by the NDP’s shift to managerial/youth demographic. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/20 "2022-02-01T18:19:31Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > he has (had) a chance The hard core haters and social conservatives in the party would not let him. They want the party to be anti-gay, anti-immigrant, etc. They adore Trumpism. They are a small minority of Canadians, but a large enough part of the CPC that they have a chance to sink O’Toole and splinter the party (again). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720.md?page=2)