# O'Toole is out as opposition leader (Canadian politics) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 1, 2022, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720 "2022-02-01T02:04:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/121 "2022-02-13T01:30:01Z")
> [@Latimera](#): > > He’s actually been a pretty decent prime minister, under the circumstances. I’m struggling to think of many positive accomplishments. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/122 "2022-02-13T02:19:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’m struggling to think of many positive accomplishments. They ate Trump’s lunch during the NAFTA renegotiations. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/123 "2022-02-13T02:36:06Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > They ate Trump’s lunch during the NAFTA renegotiations. Gosh, that wasn’t the read of any knowledgeable observer I know… unless you mean they just didn’t allow it to be much different from the old one. Which was, in a sense, a win, at least opposed to Trump’s plan to fuck everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/124 "2022-02-13T04:01:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’m struggling to think of many positive accomplishments. Think maybe that is more a statement about you than it is about Trudeau? 30 seconds of googling found these: [Here’s how Canada changed under Justin Trudeau](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/here-s-how-canada-changed-under-justin-trudeau-1.4494319) [27 Liberal Promises Kept](https://liberal.ca/27-liberal-promises-kept/) [Washington monthly](https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/09/29/justin-trudeau-may-be-the-worlds-most-successful-progressive-leader/): From the latter: “Trudeau’s policies appear to have had strong results. Poverty—which was increasing before he took office in 2015—has fallen during his administration, from 14.5 percent to 10.1 percent in 2019 (the most recent year for which data is available). That’s at least partially attributable to the Child Care Benefit, which experts believe decreased childhood poverty by 20 percent in the two years after its enactment. Deep poverty, meanwhile, fell from 7.4 percent to 5.0 percent. The share of Canadians making less than half the median income was rising before Trudeau won. Since his first victory, it has decreased by 15 percent. The share of after-tax income going to the bottom 40 percent of earners, largely stagnant under his predecessor, went up. It remains to be seen how COVID-19 will shape his economic legacy, but Trudeau’s government has mounted an aggressive fiscal response. The pandemic has complicated the government’s efforts to bring in immigrants, but Canada has remained one of the friendliest nations for foreigners. Of all the refugees who resettled around the world in 2020, nearly half went to Canada. It is the third consecutive year that the country has led the world in resettlements.” Will he go down in history as one of the great Prime Ministers? Probably not. But to suggest he is a bad Prime Minister is, to me, absurd. I have many foreign friends and colleagues that would trade leaders with Canada in a heartbeat… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/125 "2022-02-13T04:15:55Z")
> [@Latimera](#): > > 27 Liberal Promises Kept That’s the Liberal Party website. They may, possibly, not be the most impartial source. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/126 "2022-02-13T05:22:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Gosh, that wasn’t the read of any knowledgeable observer I know… unless you mean they just didn’t allow it to be much different from the old one. Which was, in a sense, a win, at least opposed to Trump’s plan to fuck everyone. Well, maybe you don’t know many knowledgeable observers, then. > **[The winners and losers in the new NAFTA](https://theconversation.com/the-winners-and-losers-in-the-new-nafta-104215)** > > Who are the winners and losers in the new USMCA? It’s complicated, but one thing’s for certain: Canada should never again allow itself to be overly dependent upon one trading partner. > [@](#): > > Canada has also staved off the tariffs Trump threatened to impose [on autos and auto parts](http://news.morningstar.com/all/canada-news-wire/20181001C6515/usmca-framework-achieves-auto-gains-unifor.aspx) that could have devastated the Canadian auto industry, which contributes over $50 billion in income and sustains more than 500,000 direct and indirect well-paying jobs in Canada. > > The agreement would shield the first 2.6 million Canadian car exports to the U.S. from any tariffs. This is significantly higher than the current 1.8 million cars that Canada on average exports to the U.S. annually. We got a major improvement in an industry worth $50billion a year. Meanwhile… > [@](#): > > Nonetheless, the U.S. got its way, forcing Canada to yield a larger market share for American dairy farmers. While Canada, under the new terms of the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement, was willing to grant a 3.2 per cent market share to trade partners, under the USMCA, it yields 3.6 per cent. > > Perhaps more significant is Canada’s willingness to eliminate the pricing scheme for what is known as Class 7 dairy products allowing U.S. producers to out-compete Canadian farmers. The milk industry was a particular bee in Trump’s bonnet, for reasons that remain obscure. We gave him 0.4% more access than we had already agreed on for the TPP, which you might remember Trump torpedoed. The entire Canadian milk industry [is worth about $20billion a year](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_farming_in_Canada). So Trump got about $80million extra. As you said, most of the rest of the deal ended up maintaining the status quo. By recognizing that they could buy off Trump’s ego with a trivially small concession that he was personally obsessed with, they opened the door to a much larger win in the auto sector. That’s an unequivocal win for Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/127 "2022-02-13T06:30:13Z")
That’s immaterial. Do you dispute the list? You said that you had trouble thinking of many positive accomplishments by Trudeau. I provided some links to refresh your memory. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/128 "2022-02-13T16:38:21Z")
Well, let’s try it this way. Which of his accomplishments do you think have been negative? Or do you think the sum of accomplishments (both positive and negative) since 2015 is zero? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/129 "2022-02-13T19:22:26Z")
> [@Latimera](#): > > That’s immaterial. Do you dispute the list? Well, yeah. Most of these are either of negligible impact or can’t even be called accomplishments, like “we have a plan for carbon pricing” or “we have an agreement in principle”. Saying you have a plan is not an accomplishment. C’mon. Some are outright lies - how have they “revitalized Canada’s international profile”? The stupid trucker protest is the most attention we’ve gotten since 2015, by far. Even the “Accomplishments” are modest. They opened a few veteran’s affairs offices. Great. Governments open and close offices. Characterizing routine government business as an accomplishment is sad. The Harper government used to run lists like this too, and it was sad then and it’s sad now. But this is getting off topic, I’d point out. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/130 "2022-02-13T20:06:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But this is getting off topic, I’d point out. Maybe yes, maybe no. I predict the NEXT CPC Leader will run on a campaign of “Trudeau has done nothing. We hate him and so should you.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/131 "2022-02-13T20:09:16Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I predict the NEXT CPC Leader will run on a campaign of “Trudeau has done nothing. We hate him and so should you.” I’ll be mildly surprised if they run on any discernable message, since they didn’t last time. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/132 "2022-02-13T20:13:09Z")
If Pollievre gets in as leader, they might run on: “We’ve got a great big convoy Rockin’ through the night Yeah, we got a great big convoy Ain’t she a beautiful sight?” ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/133 "2022-02-13T23:29:48Z")
Things I think the Liberals (and Trudeau) have down reasonably well with Pushing CETA over the finish line NATFA 2.0 Calling the \*\*Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women inquiry and taking some, belated, actions Managing Trump Imposing a Carbon taxing framework Collapsing Alberta oil industry COVID vaccination acquisition What they’ve done middling to badly COVID - complete abdication of a central clearing house of information Indigenous relations/water - lots of platitudes and little action Collapsing Alberta oil industry Money laundering in Canad China’s influence domestically Progressively wedging demographics into left/right framing ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/134 "2022-02-14T07:24:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > If Pollievre gets in as leader, they might run on: > > “We’ve got a great big convoy I think he’d be perfectly happy coming in second with such a message, so long as he holds his own seat. It’s much easier to just hang back and take potshots at the government from the opposition benches, than it is to actually articulate policies and have to implement said policies. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/135 "2022-02-18T00:05:07Z")
How easy would it be for Poilievre to hold his seat? He is an astute politician, so I suppose he figures Carleton supports him. But I do not know Ottawa well. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/136 "2022-02-18T06:23:33Z")
His riding is a mostly rural riding with lots of expensive houses on large lots. It’s a near perfect, “Fuck you, I’ve got mine” kind of riding. He’d have to fuck a goat on live TV to lose this riding, and even then, if it was a _female_ goat, he might still pull it off. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/137 "2022-02-18T16:19:28Z")
Wouldn’t it be easier to pull off a male goat? (I’ll see myself out.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/138 "2022-02-18T23:25:01Z")
Poilievre strikes me as the type of politician who is easily underestimated. He’s a smart guy. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/139 "2022-02-19T18:40:03Z")
He’s the Ted Cruz of Canada. Smart enough to know he’s full of shit, but vile enough not to care. I’m not sure that combination is enough to win a general election. I’m near certain it’s enough to win the leadership of the CPC, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720/140 "2022-02-19T19:46:22Z")
That’s actually a very astute comparison. Nicely done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/otoole-is-out-as-opposition-leader-canadian-politics/958720.md?page=6)