# Ottawa Dopers, how are you doing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 5, 2022, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960 "2022-02-05T14:33:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/181 "2022-02-18T03:30:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You make it sound like a [Simpsons episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut3I6gFmlls). If you want to see what happens to a PM who ignores consensus, check out Maggie Thatcher, Jean Chrétien and Alison Redford (former premier of Alberta). None of them lost an election - but they were out on their ear when they lost support from their party and the Cabinet. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/182 "2022-02-18T04:23:09Z")
In my recent post, I stated I would not comment on the timing. This is because the Emergencies Act cannot be lightly invoked. Trudeau made it clear fairly early that there needed to be formal requests from municipalities for provincial and federal aid. The military was considered, and clearly did not want to get too involved. The police clearly hoped they could persuade the protestors to leave, and did so with some eventual success. It is unclear to me if the police could have done more, if only they would. I could not begin to estimate the resources required and available. I do not have access to intelligence estimating the presence of weapons or risk of violence. Media declarations the police did not know who was organizing things seemed incredible. But the issue with towing heavy trucks was and is significant. Accepting the US offer of towing trucks would raise the idea Canada is unable to handle the matter and further hurt its reputation, apart from providing domestic political fodder. O’Toole was hurt by this. If Poilievre prevails future election ads will highlight both this and Harper making him apologize in the House following criticism of his apology on residential schools. Trudeau and Ford also seemed like they should be doing more. Not sure they made any politician look better. The Liberals are probably pleased the Conservatives plan to oppose use of the act. Trudeau also has and desires very limited control over policing decisions. I do not know the obstacles to declaring the Emergencies Act, but it will strike many Canadians as reasonable even if the legalities are slightly murky. The government will want to discourage future protestors from using similar tactics. Still, there is something Canadian about this protest. Leave. No. Please! No. Pretty please with maple syrup? No. We’ll give you coupons for free TimBiebs! But they are valid only in Hull. No. Look, there’s a trail of breadcrumbs. Follow it! I hear it leads to a house in the woods, made of Beavertails, where rivers of spruce beer and Labatts 50 flow freely… but you’ll have to leave the hot tub. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/183 "2022-02-18T05:35:31Z")
Well, I’m out of ideas. Did you tell them you could take their truck? Yes. Did you tell them you could make them watch all 200 episodes of _The Beachcombers_? No. Did you tell them they were being mischievous? Yes. Did you say they had no permits for a bouncy castle, and give them a ticket for $79?… (I would not make a good police officer.) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/184 "2022-02-18T11:52:48Z")
And the court challenges are coming: > **['Legal standard not met': Two court challenges filed over Trudeau's use of...](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/legal-challenge-against-emergencies-act-planned-by-constitutional-rights-group)** > > Justin Trudeau's use of the Emergencies Act 'has set a dangerous precedent,' the non-partisan Canadian Constitution Foundation said And two of the protest leaders have been arrested: > **[Convoy protest organizers Tamara Lich, Chris Barber, Pat King arrested in...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/tamara-lich-chris-barber-arrested-ottawa-1.6355960)** > > Tamara Lich, Chris Barber and Pat King, key organizers of the so-called Freedom Convoy that has occupied Ottawa streets for three weeks, were arrested in Ottawa and charged. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/185 "2022-02-18T13:12:10Z")
And parliament is not sitting today because of a planned police operation in front of Parliament on Wellington. > **[MPs to resume debate on Emergencies Act after police make gains against...](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6356454)** > > The House of Commons will resume debate of the government's controversial decision to invoke the Emergencies Act on Saturday after being shut down in anticipation of the police operation Friday that resulted in more than 100 arrests outside... ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/186 "2022-02-18T15:46:54Z")
I thought this was an articulate, thoughtful anti-“FluTruxKlan” counter-argument [https://twitter.com/MrPaulBae/status/1494042904238518272?s=20&t=pR8Ho6OS7EZCI2gHuPSMfw](https://twitter.com/MrPaulBae/status/1494042904238518272?s=20&t=pR8Ho6OS7EZCI2gHuPSMfw) For those who haven’t heard of the Canadian Heritage Minutes, they are a series of short vignettes illustrating bits of Canadian history in an upbeat, “Go Canada” kind of way. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/187 "2022-02-18T17:07:06Z")
15 arrested, 4 vehicles towed as of noon Friday. Police are just slowly picking them off and clearing one street at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/188 "2022-02-19T01:45:19Z")
CNN article on the police effort to clear the streets. For some reason, one of the protesters in the picture is waving the Australian Stockade Flag. Just general defiance, I guess. > **[Canadian police working to clear Ottawa downtown of protesters say they have...](https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/18/americas/canada-trucker-protest-covid-friday/index.html)** > > Demonstrations in Ottawa turned violent Friday as protesters, according to authorities, assaulted officers and tried to remove their weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/189 "2022-02-19T02:00:36Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > For some reason, one of the protesters in the picture is waving the Australian Stockade Flag. I’ve seen that flag on the TV news. I wondered what it was. Thanks for letting us know! They also said on TV that police had been called from across the country. And the photo contains proof that the mounted unit is from Toronto. I recognize their shoulder patches, from when I used to live there. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/190 "2022-02-19T02:02:28Z")
Here’s a link: > **[Eureka Flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_Flag)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > > The Eureka Flag was flown at the Battle of the Eureka Stockade, which took place on 3 December 1854 at Ballarat in Victoria, Australia. It was the culmination of the 1851–1854 Eureka Rebellion on the Victorian goldfields, where miners protested against the cost of mining permits and the officious way the colonial authorities enforced the system along with other grievances. An estimated crowd of over 10,000 demonstrators swore allegiance to the... ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/191 "2022-02-19T02:21:19Z")
I’ve also seen a purple version of the Gadsden flag at some local protests. I assume it’s supporters of the Peoples’ Party, since purple is their colour. > **[Gadsden flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > The Gadsden flag is an historical American flag with a yellow field depicting a timber rattlesnake coiled and ready to strike. Beneath the rattlesnake are the words: "DONT TREAD ON ME".\[note 1\] Some modern versions of the flag include an apostrophe. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/192 "2022-02-19T02:53:00Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And the court challenges are coming: I don’t know about the CCLA but ACLU lawyers would sue their own mothers for the physical trauma of natural child birth. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/193 "2022-02-19T02:58:42Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I’ve also seen a purple version of the Gadsden flag at some local protests. I assume it’s supporters of the Peoples’ Party, since purple is their colour. I know the Gadsden flag, and I know that it is primarily yellow. So I was puzzled by the purple ones I was seeing. You explained it–thanks again! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/194 "2022-02-19T03:05:07Z")
You’re welcome. I find symbolism and their transmogrification fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/195 "2022-02-19T03:25:24Z")
Barber has been released on 100k bail. He has to leave Ottawa. Interesting stuff about the flags. I also was confused by the purple. The CCLA generally has a low profile. I can’t speak for the legal arguments. I doubt the vote will face difficulty passing if the NDP support it. I think folks in Ottawa largely wanted the trucks and protestors gone weeks ago. The news gave the impression many trucks left voluntarily today. But then a later broadcast said only ten trucks did. So I know even less than usual. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/196 "2022-02-19T03:30:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t know about the CCLA but ACLU lawyers would sue their own mothers for the physical trauma of natural child birth. The ACLU sometimes seems to be over the top, but I’m no expert. But I’ve always had a very positive view of the CCLA. My older brother was personal friends with Alan Borovoy, who served as the general counsel of the CCLA for more than forty years. I met him several times. Borovoy was largely responsible for the formation of the Canadian Human Rights Commission and the Ontario Human Rights Commission. There are those who have sometimes been critical of such quasi-judicial commissions (and that includes me) but Borovoy himself was strongly critical of those who abused such commissions in order to attempt to censor unfavourable views, which he regarded as illiberal manipulation that undermined their role as legitimate guardians of civil liberties. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/197 "2022-02-19T19:51:59Z")
I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out. It starts as a local problem that exceeds their ability to handle and escalates into millions of dollars of economic damage and blockades of roadways and border crossings. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/198 "2022-02-19T20:02:46Z")
This has never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/199 "2022-02-22T04:45:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out. The use of the Emergencies Act was approved this evening by the Commons. Still needs to be approved by the Senate. As an indication of how serious a matter it is to use the Act, there was a real concern that if the government motion had failed, it would have been treated as a non-confidence vote, triggering the fall of the government and a general election. But sure, Trudeau should have just used it right at the start … > **[Motion to confirm Emergencies Act approved in House of Commons](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/mps-to-vote-tonight-on-whether-emergencies-act-for-blockades-still-needed/wcm/cb31456c-7d79-488e-86e6-285826e54847/amp/)** > > The NDP voted in favour alongside the minority Liberals, with some expressing concerns a 'no' vote would have toppled the government ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/200 "2022-02-22T16:29:40Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > But sure, Trudeau should have just used it right at the start … Exactly. This is the best part about being a right-winger in Canada: Trudeau was terrible for not coming down on the people blockading the streets sooner. He should have gotten on this faster and “talked to them\*” He’s a wimp. AND he was terrible for coming down on them too harshly later. He’s a dictator. He’s both of these things, interchangeably! \*They were innocent truckers and Trudeau should have talked to them. We’re not sure who “them” are, but he sure should have had a chat with them. Maybe the western separatist party leaders. Or the ones chanting for him to be locked up. Or the ones with Trumper hats. Or the ones who think Vaccines inject microchips into you and turn you into a magnet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960.md?page=11)