# Ottawa Dopers, how are you doing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 5, 2022, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960 "2022-02-05T14:33:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/21 "2022-02-08T04:50:08Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I was just thinking that, @Northern_Piper, and probably while you were posting, I was reviewing the famous Pierre Trudeau “Just watch me” interview. For those whose memories need refreshing, or who never saw it in the first place, here it is: The replacement for the War Measures Act that Trudeau, Sr. used makes it a lot harder to do the same thing now. Justin is stuck relying on the civilian police powers, which in Ottawa, have basically already surrendered to the convoy occupiers. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/22 "2022-02-08T12:54:18Z")
Trudeau’s actions were extremely popular in Canada at the time, especially in Anglo Canada. Public hysteria, anti-Quebec sentiment, anti-“counter-culture” sentiment, and political opportunism all fed into the events and it is hard to know what lessons to draw from it all re the current protests. And there is a big difference between towing some trucks and sending in the army to “aid the civil power.” What I think telling is there is considerable support for such inchoate infantile politics as the “convoy,” and if we don’t think about looking at the causes for that, things may continue to slide ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/23 "2022-02-08T13:09:58Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > What I think telling is there is considerable support for such inchoate infantile politics as the “convoy,” and if we don’t think about looking at the causes for that, things may continue to slide The thing is, we already know a lot of the causes. Far too many people are believing things that are just flat out not true, and in many cases, literally insane. They’re the end result victims of years of propaganda, lying and outright bullshit by politicians, fringe political movements, and social media accounts like Infowars, who find some profit in convincing people to believe this nonsense. We’ve been trying to address this problem for years now, and it just keeps getting worse. I used to think I knew how to at least try to reach out to these people, but after years of failure by essentially everyone who has ever tried this, I no longer believe that. I now have no idea how we might even begin to address this problem, but I’m pretty sure “empowering the worst elements of the problem by pandering to their asinine demands to meet with the Prime Minister to discuss the dissolution of the Canadian government” is exactly the wrong way to start. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/24 "2022-02-08T13:39:32Z")
Agree with your last point, absolutely. I think we might consider 1) whether the last 40 years dismantling of social welfare measures, stagnating incomes, worsening jobs, etc. has made a lot of people vulnerable, angry, and with no obvious way forward 2) the degree to which unscrupulous right wing activists eager for publicity and personal gain take advantage of that and 3) the degree to which this aids and is funded by people like the Koch brothers for their own gain and security, as we start to look for answers. This does not preclude 4) there is a certain amount of dumb-ass crazy that will never be entirely eliminated but 5) can be drastically reduced through improved social measures that would literally give more people something better to do and think about ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/25 "2022-02-08T15:35:28Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > So…the Canadian military doesn’t have any tow trucks of its own? I don’t know if you’re being facetious or not but, if not, there’s an actual military occupation, vehicle mechanic, which does, some of which are designed for the extraction of armored combat vehicles (sometimes done under RPG fire in Afghanistan years ago). I can see something of that nature being required at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/26 "2022-02-08T17:56:36Z")
I was being facetious in questioning whether the military _could_ get them out. I was wondering what it’s going to take to get to that point if what’s happening already isn’t bad enough. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/27 "2022-02-08T18:00:37Z")
I’m not really seeing a direct correspondence here. Removing these specific people and their trucks from this specific area in which they are breaking the law isn’t going to require giving the police sweeping powers to arrest anyone across the entire province, or in any way violate the civil liberties of anyone who is not in fact breaking the law. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/28 "2022-02-08T18:01:52Z")
I hope Canada has civil forfeiture laws so that if government entities have to step in and remove the vehicles said vehicles will then belong to the political entity that had to mobilize to remove them. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/29 "2022-02-08T18:06:10Z")
If it becomes necessary it will be interesting to see how messy it gets, depending on levels of resistance. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/30 "2022-02-09T06:13:18Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The truck protesters are saying that no heavy towing company will take the contract from the Ottawa city police, because every single towing company supports the protest. > > Off the record, reps from the heavy towing companies are saying that if they take the contract from the police, they will be boycotted by every trucker, and their business will go down the tubes. > > Up to the reader to decide which explanation is correct. Here’s a story from the Ottawa Citizen that kind of touches on that. [Ottaw tow-truck operator receives hundreds of threats from both sides of the convoy | Ottawa Citizen](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ottaw-tow-truck-operator-receives-hundreds-of-threats-from-both-sides-of-the-convoy) They quote a tow truck driver who supports the protesters and was towing some stuff in between staging areas for them. However, when some other protest supporters mistakenly heard that he was towing away a kitchen at the request of police, they lost their shit. > The blowback May received was perhaps not surprising, given the heated partisanship and volatility surrounding what many are now calling an occupation. What did take him aback, though, was the sheer magnitude of the response, with hundreds of angry callers phoning and threatening him and his family, night and day. > > Additionally, he says, the haters have come from both sides of the issue, with convoy supporters ganging up first when they thought he was moving the structure as part of a police effort, followed by the anti-convoy contingent when it became clear he supported the protest. > > “It’s going sideways now,” May says. “I should never have done it, absolutely.” He also offers up this bit: > The phone calls began soon after, hundreds and hundreds of them. About 70 per cent of the death threats and complaints he could identify — many caller IDs weren’t displayed — were from the U.S. Many called him a sheep and a rat fink, telling him he deserved whatever came his way. One caller, May says, phoned him 22 times between 4:22 a.m. and about 8 a.m. on Monday. Meanwhile, only about 30 per cent of those wiling to hear his explanation subsequently offered any kind of apology. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/31 "2022-02-09T08:18:59Z")
It’s interesting to see the difference in response when the protestors are viewed unsympathetically. Even when these protestors are _actually_ ‘mostly peaceful.’ ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/32 "2022-02-09T14:03:33Z")
The causes [everybody knows to what you refer] are incomparably different. To minimize the potential threadjack, the anti-vaxxers **think** their position is equivalent to being anti motorcycle helmet laws. In reality, it’s much more equivalent to anti drunk driving laws. Their position ignores the potentially leviathan and lethal impact of their choices on other people. Their _position_ fails to grasp the **impossibly** basic principle that ‘your right to swing your fist ends where my face begins.’ ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/33 "2022-02-09T14:37:04Z")
And now the truckers have human shields [Trucker convoy: Kids in 25% of vehicles could ‘complicate’ response, cops say | Globalnews.ca](https://globalnews.ca/news/8603944/ottawa-kids-trucks-freedom-convoy/), or as the Ottawa Police Services Deputy Chief says “Almost 25 per cent of the 418 trucks have children living in them — children who could be at risk during a police operation.” And these trucker protests are spreading around the world which makes me wonder/worry if there is something akin to the European revolutions of 1848 on the horizon. The failure of the authorities (OPS, OPP, RCMP or whoever else) to mitigate this by, for example, having checkpoints on the 417, could prove very costly. ---
**Author:** ![Dandan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Dandan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/34 "2022-02-09T15:15:27Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > even the special drivers license and seat belts, speed limits, etc. Yeah, licences, seat belts, speed limits…don’t forget the burdens of insurance, and, well, I see you sort of touched on vehicle safety. This is a whole lot of moaning over things we all have to do to use the roads. So sad (DJT, tm) How about, arrest the drivers and tow their trucks; fees and fines ensue. No need to barricade the streets when they can contribute to the highway fund. Won’t someone think of the poor ambulance and fire engine drivers? Dan ---
**Author:** ![Dandan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Dandan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/35 "2022-02-09T15:21:43Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The truck protesters are saying that no heavy towing company will take the contract from the Ottawa city police, because every single towing company supports the protest. Court order to commandeer the trucks of every operator, so no blame attaches to any individual? Dan ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/36 "2022-02-09T15:37:26Z")
What I heard this morning is that it can be extremely difficult to tow a big rig _without_ the cooperation of the owner/driver. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/37 "2022-02-09T15:41:55Z")
Your neighbour might be peaceful if he honked his car horn continuously for twelve hours every day. But you still wouldn’t want to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/38 "2022-02-09T15:44:58Z")
What about if the owner/driver is removed from the vicinity, and some other person capable of driving such a vehicle cooperates in their stead? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/39 "2022-02-09T15:49:24Z")
That’s a good question. But I don’t know how make/model-specific the knowledge/problem is. IOW: can _most truck drivers_ do what’s necessary to make a big rig towable _in most cases_ ? And then there’s the ‘**[scab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker)**’ element. Passions are high on both sides. I’m not sure how readily I’d volunteer for that duty. ISTM there’s a selection bias in this protest that’s likely comparable to the 1/6 US Capitol incursion. This may well be the most fervent … the maddest of the mad. This whole thing is the kind of mess that makes me profoundly grateful it isn’t my problem to solve. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960/40 "2022-02-09T16:22:54Z")
After doing a bit of reading, the issue is just the air brakes. Semi air brakes are engaged by default, and use air pressure to disengage. If a rig dumps the air pressure in the brake system, all the wheels are locked. There are three ways around this: 1) fire up the truck and disengage the brakes, 2) the really big tow trucks have lines to hook into air brake systems to disengage the brakes, 3) brute force - there’s only so much friction between the tires and the road, and it can be overcome. So, basically all you need is the key and someone who knows how airbrakes work. Of course, at that point you can probably drive the truck to the impound lot rather than towing it. Surely somewhere in the ranks of the RCMP, OPP, or OPS there’s someone with a commercial drivers license. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-dopers-how-are-you-doing/958960.md?page=3)