# Ottawa reaches $10 million compensation deal with Canadian sent abroad to be tortured **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2007, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-reaches-10-million-compensation-deal-with-canadian-sent-abroad-to-be-tortured/389553 "2007-01-26T14:39:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-reaches-10-million-compensation-deal-with-canadian-sent-abroad-to-be-tortured/389553/41 "2007-01-31T01:38:08Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] When in doubt torture. [/QUOTE] That assures that the victim will at least say _something_, right? ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-reaches-10-million-compensation-deal-with-canadian-sent-abroad-to-be-tortured/389553/42 "2007-01-31T02:31:50Z")
[QUOTE=SaintCad] But I do have one more question, what information did the RCMP give the US. The original article implied that this information is what led the US to send him to Syria and not Canada. Was it along the line of “He’s not a Canadian citizen.” or more like “We’re investigating him too, eh.”? [/QUOTE] The latter (although not that strong). There has never been any reason to doubt his Canadian citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-reaches-10-million-compensation-deal-with-canadian-sent-abroad-to-be-tortured/389553/43 "2007-01-31T03:15:54Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > But I do have one more question, what information did the RCMP give the US. The original article implied that this information is what led the US to send him to Syria and not Canada. Was it along the line of “He’s not a Canadian citizen.” or more like “We’re investigating him too, eh.”? More like the latter. Mr. Arar is a naturalised citizen of Canada. That’s not in issue. On one occasion, the RCMP observed him talking to another person of Arab background in Ottawa, who was the target of their investigation. That meant that Mr. Arar became a “person of interest” in their investigation of the target. That’s pretty much it. That info morphed into careless statements to the US officials that he and his wife were possibly Islamic terrorists. Here’s how Justice O’Connor summarised it in his [Report](http://www.ararcommission.ca/eng/AR_English.pdf) (pdf alert): > [@O'Connor Report](#): > > Mr. Arar has never been charged with any offence in Canada, the United States or Syria. Indeed, although RCMP officers conducting a terrorism-related investigation were interested in interviewing Mr. Arar, they did not consider him a suspect or a target of that investigation. They wished to interview him as a witness because of his associations with certain other individuals. I have heard evidence concerning all of the information collected about Mr. Arar in Canadian investigations, and there is nothing to indicate that Mr. Arar committed an offence or that his activities constitute a threat to the security of Canada. > [@O'Connor Report](#): > > 4.1 INFORMATION SHARING PRIOR TO MR. ARAR’S DETENTION > > • The RCMP provided American authorities with information, including the entire database from the aforementioned terrorism investigation, in ways that did not comply with RCMP policies requiring screening for relevance, reliability and personal information. Some of the information related to Mr. Arar. > > • The RCMP provided American authorities with information about Mr. Arar that was inaccurate, portrayed him in an unfairly negative fashion and over-stated his importance in the RCMP investigation. > > • The RCMP provided American authorities with information about Mr. Arar without attaching written caveats,2 as required by RCMP policy, thereby increasing the risk that the information would be used for purposes of which the RCMP would not approve, such as sending Mr. Arar to Syria. > > • The RCMP requested that American authorities place lookouts for Mr. Arar and his wife, Monia Mazigh, in U.S. Customs’ Treasury Enforcement Communications System (TECS). In the request, to which no caveats were attached, the RCMP described Mr. Arar and Dr, Mazigh as “Islamic Extremist individuals suspected of being linked to the Al Qaeda terrorist movement.” The RCMP had no basis for this description, which had the potential to create serious consequences for Mr. Arar in light of American attitudes and practices at the time. > > • Project A-OCanada was the front-line investigative unit in the RCMP that conducted the investigation in which Mr. Arar was a person of interest, and it was that unit that provided information about Mr. Arar to American agencies. The RCMP, as an institution, gave Project A-OCanada unclear and, in some instances, misleading direction concerning the manner in which information should be shared, and failed to properly oversee the Project’s investigation, including its information-sharing practices. > > • CSIS did not share any information about Mr. Arar with the American authorities prior to his detention in NewYork and removal to Syria. > > 4.2 DETENTION IN NEW YORK AND REMOVAL TO SYRIA > > • There is no evidence that Canadian officials participated or acquiesced in the American authorities’ decisions to detain Mr. Arar and remove him to Syria. > > • It is very likely that, in making the decisions to detain and remove Mr. Arar, American authorities relied on information about Mr. Arar provided by the RCMP. > > • While Mr. Arar was being detained in NewYork on September 26, 2002, the RCMP provided the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) with information about him, some of which portrayed him in an inaccurate and unfair way. > > • Without the evidence of the American authorities, I am unable to conclude what role, if any, the TECS lookout requested by the RCMP played in the American decisions to detain Mr. Arar and remove him to Syria. > > • During Mr. Arar’s detention in NewYork, consular officials with the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (DFAIT) took reasonable steps to provide Mr. Arar with consular services, including addressing the possibility that he might be sent to Syria. As I’ve said earlier, the Mounties’ conduct contributed heavily to the problem here. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-reaches-10-million-compensation-deal-with-canadian-sent-abroad-to-be-tortured/389553/44 "2007-01-31T03:23:45Z")
[QUOTE=SaintCad] I also love how somehow this has all been turned around to blame the US for the torture instead of the people who actually did it (i.e. the Syrians). [/QUOTE] I can’t speak for other posters, but it seems to me there were three steps leading to the torture: - the misleading information that the Mounties provided to the US officials; - the decision by the US officials to deport Mr. Arar to Syria, a decision which the US has never explained in any way; - the torture in Syria. Plenty of culpability here - the torture wouldn’t have occurred without the initial steps by the RCMP and the US officials. Blame should be allocated according to the degree it contributed to the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-reaches-10-million-compensation-deal-with-canadian-sent-abroad-to-be-tortured/389553/45 "2007-01-31T03:24:18Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] **SaintCad** and **Dolukhanova** , I understand the point you’re both raising - I’m always reluctant to jump to the conclusion that a public official is mistreating citizens, without evidence. And, as I said in my earlier post, it is an inference - there is no direct evidence of the intention of the U.S. officials in explaining why they deported Mr. Arar to Syria. But the information supporting the inference that it was a conscious choice to send Mr. Arar to Syria, knowing that he would be at the least, detained without due process, and quite likely mistreated or tortured, seems strong, in my opinion. [/QUOTE] I read once that there is a specific term for “farming out torture to other countries so the US can torture its enemies without getting its hands dirty”; it’s one of those obscure phrases where if you hear it casually without knowing its meaning, you don’t know what it means. Does anyone know what I am talking about? I can’t remember for the life of me what it is, and I’ve been racking my brain. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-reaches-10-million-compensation-deal-with-canadian-sent-abroad-to-be-tortured/389553/46 "2007-01-31T03:31:04Z")
[QUOTE=kung fu lola] I read once that there is a specific term for “farming out torture to other countries so the US can torture its enemies without getting its hands dirty”; it’s one of those obscure phrases where if you hear it casually without knowing its meaning, you don’t know what it means. Does anyone know what I am talking about? I can’t remember for the life of me what it is, and I’ve been racking my brain. [/QUOTE] Not “extraordinary rendition”? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-reaches-10-million-compensation-deal-with-canadian-sent-abroad-to-be-tortured/389553/47 "2007-01-31T15:54:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] Not “extraordinary rendition”? [/QUOTE] Posts 23, 24 and 35. For folks who are not aware of USA rendition, please read Stephen Grey’s _New Statesman_ article “America’s gulag” from three years ago: [http://www.newstatesman.com/200405170016](http://www.newstatesman.com/200405170016) Please also read Jane Mayer’s _New Yorker_ article “OUTSOURCING TORTURE: The secret history of America’s “extraordinary rendition” program” from a couple of years back: [http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050214fa\_fact6?050214fa\_fact6](http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050214fa_fact6?050214fa_fact6) As 20 year CIA mid-east case officer (now retired with the CIA Career Intelligence Medal) Bob Baer explains it (as quoted in the _New Statesman_ article): “If you want a serious interrogation, you send a prisoner to Jordan. If you want them to be tortured, you send them to Syria. If you want someone to disappear - never to see them again - you send them to Egypt.” Both articles go into the Arar rendition in detail. Forget the black helicpoters – we need to watch out for the USA government’s white Gulfstream V. Also note the date of the _New Statesman_ article and compare it to when Bush was last elected. Shame on those who voted for him. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-reaches-10-million-compensation-deal-with-canadian-sent-abroad-to-be-tortured/389553/48 "2007-02-02T19:42:51Z")
Now Jordan claims Arar arrived by a commercial flight, and then asked to be driven to Syria. USA, its time you made some new friends. Those such as Jordan and Syria just don’t cut the mustard. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-reaches-10-million-compensation-deal-with-canadian-sent-abroad-to-be-tortured/389553/49 "2007-02-02T20:56:27Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] Now Jordan claims Arar arrived by a commercial flight, and then asked to be driven to Syria. USA, its time you made some new friends. Those such as Jordan and Syria just don’t cut the mustard. [/QUOTE] Are you kidding, Muffin! We’re great pals with Saudi Arabia. Talk about quality friends. :rolleyes: We’re becoming more and more ill-favored among those who would be our real friends. I don’t blame Canada for being embarrassed by us. I am. mangeorge [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ottawa-reaches-10-million-compensation-deal-with-canadian-sent-abroad-to-be-tortured/389553.md?page=2)