# Ouch...possible illegal killing of an insurgent in Fallujah. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985 "2004-11-16T02:44:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/261 "2004-11-25T11:30:30Z")
> [@The Truth](#): > > From your link: > > **"War is about killing your enemy before he kills you.** > > I do not fault the soldier. Good shot is my comment to the soldier. It must be my crappy English, but I didn’t read “War is about killing your enemy before he kills you without a weapon and while unconscious and dying”. Anyway, I make from your comment that you agree that every Iraqi has every right in the world to kill every foreign occupyer by any means possible or available. Or do you say that these foreign occupyers are not their enemies. Or is it your conviction that Iraq is a US territory and hence every Iraqi resisting being occupied is an enemy of the USA and the other way round. Or what exactly do you try to bring across with your open support for murdering unarmed and bleeding and dying people in Iraq? I might come as a shock toyou but “The Truth” is that the USA is The Terrorist in Iraq. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/262 "2004-11-25T13:34:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Or do you say that these foreign occupyers are not their enemies. > > Or is it your conviction that Iraq is a US territory and hence every Iraqi resisting being occupied is an enemy of the USA and the other way round. He’s not saying that at all, and you know that, but what he’s trying to get across is the fact there are other, more better ways at resisting US occupation (take a leaf outta Gandhis book) which can be percieved by the world media as legitimate and rightful, but the insurgents have resorted to increasingly brutal and terrible tactics that have lost them widespread support, because we all know now, or get the impression anyway, that they are a bunch of remorseless cold hearted killers who have no intention of doing what is best for the Iraqi people, at least under the occupation American forces are trying to do whats best in some way of helping the Iraqis get on their feet and bring about a government they know the people there want. I say do all we can to help them achieve this aim. > [@](#): > > I might come as a shock toyou but “The Truth” is that the USA is The Terrorist in Iraq. :rolleyes: Nice slogan, how many times a day do you shout it? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/263 "2004-11-25T13:53:32Z")
There is a turn of phrase – we say of the most depraved, ruthless, dishonest weasel in an organization, especially one who doesn’t really contribute anything to the objective, that he is the guy we send out to shoot the wounded. Does that tell us something. War is not about killing everything that comes over the horizon. Tribal war, conflicts of mobs of thugs, pretend wars in school yards, wars where a savage soldiery has slipped the bonds of discipline and has become mere pillagers, maybe. The United States are not a tribal hoard or a roaming war party. The US armed forces are not engaged in a knife and chain fight is some alley. The USMC has not been given 48 hours to loot and pillage. We do not execute the wounded, God damn it. We do not look for excuses to execute the wounded. We hold our selves to a higher standard, all the time, not just when it is convenient. We serve an ideal. That ideal has nothing to do with killing the unarmed, helpless wounded that fall into our hands. It can’t be otherwise because if it is we are no different than the people we oppose. Like Walt Kelly said – we have met the enemy and he is us. Is that what you want? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/264 "2004-11-25T14:24:12Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > … > The United States are not a tribal hoard or a roaming war party. The US armed forces are not engaged in a knife and chain fight is some alley. The USMC has not been given 48 hours to loot and pillage. We do not execute the wounded, God damn it. We do not look for excuses to execute the wounded. We hold our selves to a higher standard, all the time, not just when it is convenient. We serve an ideal. That ideal has nothing to do with killing the unarmed, helpless wounded that fall into our hands. It can’t be otherwise because if it is we are no different than the people we oppose. As another lawyer never tires of reminding us, this view lost the election. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/265 "2004-11-25T16:47:58Z")
> [@sevastopol](#): > > As another lawyer never tires of reminding us, this view lost the election. Then, sir, the terrorists have indeed won. I will go change into furs and go looking for a sleeping village to descend on with fire and sword, confident that I have the approval of the American electorate. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/266 "2004-11-25T16:51:51Z")
“I’m only going to explain this one more time, so get it right! It’s ravage, plunder, pillage, rape…and _then_ burn!” ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/267 "2004-11-25T17:35:40Z")
I’m too damned old for that. I’ve got all of the Seven Deadly Sins under control except for sloth and gluttony, and occasionally anger. Lust, avarice, and envy are pretty much used up. Pride was beaten out of me as a child. Rape, pillage, _et. al._ are just too much work. I’ll send the flying monkeys to take care of it. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/268 "2004-11-25T17:45:18Z")
Lust used up??? Lust?? If that ever happens to me…well… You might as well stick a fork in me because I’m done. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/269 "2004-11-25T18:02:46Z")
The time will come, my child, that you will be content to enjoy the companionship of the woman you have slept with for two-thirds of your life and not feel a need to jump on every woman who shows you the least kindness. It is a great release. It’s cheaper, too. This of course is our little game of Thanksgiving whimsy and self indulgence and has little to do with the murder of prisoners of war. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/270 "2004-11-25T20:07:15Z")
I’m not allowed to lust after my wife? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/271 "2004-11-25T20:31:10Z")
“Allowed” may not be precisely the word. “ByGodbetter!” might be it… ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/272 "2004-11-25T21:22:23Z")
Don’t bother me now , boys. The kids and the grandbaby will be here shortly. I’ve got to go work on gluttony to be followed by sloth. Maybe a little anger and if I’m really lucky just a bit of lust – but later. Later… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/273 "2004-11-26T03:21:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “I’m only going to explain this one more time, so get it right! It’s ravage, plunder, pillage, rape…and _then_ burn!” According to the Toike Oikie in the late '70s, it is: “Rape, pillage and burn, rape pillage and burn, rape rape rape rape, forget the pillage and burn.” ---
**Author:** ![Chis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Chis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chis)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/274 "2004-11-26T23:28:17Z")
> [@Mirasawa](#): > > They genuinely sounded startled that the body was still alive. These combatants have been fighting from mosques, playing dead, and booby trapping dead bodies… so the soldiers there are understandably jumpy. This wasn’t done in cold blood like that movie from Vietnam of a prisoner being shot on the street and dying on film. > > \_ > \_ Some may argue that any combatant, wounded or not, dressed in civilian clothes in a war zone deserves to be shot. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/275 "2004-11-27T01:07:04Z")
> [@Chis](#): > > Some may argue that any combatant, wounded or not, dressed in civilian clothes in a war zone deserves to be shot. Really? I wonder if they have the courage to propose that in this forum and take the heat for it. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985/276 "2004-11-28T02:27:47Z")
> [@Chis](#): > > Some may argue that any combatant, wounded or not, dressed in civilian clothes in a war zone deserves to be shot. Yes, some would. For instance, Al Qaida. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouch-possible-illegal-killing-of-an-insurgent-in-fallujah/274985.md?page=13)