# Ought horror characters be aware of horror movies/books? (OPEN SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307 "2022-08-08T13:50:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/1 "2022-08-08T13:50:49Z")
We are almost done w/ the Netflix miniseries Midnight Mass. It starts off as a creepy scenario where “miracles” occur within the context of church. It pretty quickly turns out to be a vampire flick. But at no point does any character mention the word vampire. Now I know it would not make for good new books/shows if every character could say, “Oh - this sounds like a werewolf. Crack out the silver bullets.” But OTOH, it seems kinda weird for a character to be presented as a full developed 21st century person who never heard to Dracula. Or slasher movies - so they wander into the dark cellar. What are some of your favorite examples where characters were blindly unaware of pretty obvious horror conventions. Are there examples of horror-lit “aware” characters done well? Maybe Buffy? But they aren’t just “normal” for. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/2 "2022-08-08T14:03:00Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Are there examples of horror-lit “aware” characters done well? My favorite has always been George Clooney in “From Dusk Til Dawn”, and the follow-up discussion. “Has any here read an actual book on vampires, or are we all just repeating things we’ve seen in movies?” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/i-k0Ck9yFP8/maxresdefault.jpg "From Dusk Till Dawn | ‘I Don’t Believe in Vampires’ (HD) - George Clooney, Juliette Lewis | MIRAMAX") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-k0Ck9yFP8) ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/3 "2022-08-08T14:45:31Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > It pretty quickly turns out to be a vampire flick. But at no point does any character mention the word vampire. This bothered me about The Walking Dead. I know the point was that it was a world in which nobody had ever heard of zombies, but come on. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Are there examples of horror-lit “aware” characters done well? Maybe Buffy? But they aren’t just “normal” for. There’s kind of a whole category of ‘meta-horror’. The ‘Scream’ franchise and ‘Cabin in the Woods’ being two prime examples. How ‘done well’ they were is a matter of opinion. I thought ‘Scream’ was a little too much up its own ass, but I enjoyed Cabin in the Woods. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/4 "2022-08-08T15:35:24Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Now I know it would not make for good new books/shows if every character could say, “Oh - this sounds like a werewolf. Crack out the silver bullets.” Actually, this brings up an issue that fascinates me. 1.) Most of our “knowledge” of a lot of these supernatural beings comes from the books and, to a large extent, the movies (thank you, George Clooney). In particular, your example of silver bullets. That’s a 20th century invention. It first appears in , I think, print fiction, but most werewolf “lore” comes from the movies. In particular, the Universal movies, where most of it was invented by screenwriter Curt/Kurt Siodmak, who came up with the whole “Even a man who goes to church by day…” poem, and the Pentagram in the palm thing. Originally it wasn’t werewolves, but _witches_ that were killed by silver bullets. Look it up. 2.) as I’ve remarked before, Bram Stoker is responsible for codifying and in many cases inventing many of the features of vampire lore. Not all of them (staking a vampire in a coffin long precedes him, and sunlight or ultraviolet light killing them came well after him), but enough of them. 3.) But once you get this list of properties of your monster, and you know how to avoid or deflect or kill them, a lot of the horror is gone. A lot of the suspense and insecurity in stories and especially movies about monsters is that you _don’t_ know their capabilities and weaknesses (while they seem to be pretty sure of yours). In an effort to restore that insecurity, I’ve noticed a lot of filmmakers indulging in the subversion of those apparently ironclad rules. So in the Francis Ford Coppola version of **Dracula** Harker (Keanu Reeves) is wearing a crucifix around his neck as protection, but when he meets Dracula’s seductive “wives” it simply melts off his chest – some protection. In John Badham’s version of Dracula (1979 – the one with Frank Langella), someone holds up a crucifix to ward him off, and he grabs hold of it and it bursts into flame. In one of the Hammer Dracula films with Christopher Lee he pulls the stake out of his heart and goes after the Vampire Hunters. All of these have in common that they show what was thought to be sure-fire weapons against the vampires failing, which leaves your hero in a “what do I do now?” conundrum, unsure if _anything_ will stop the monster. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/5 "2022-08-08T15:41:10Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > But once you get this list of properties of your monster, and you know how to avoid or deflect or kill them, a lot of the horror is gone. A lot of the suspense and insecurity in stories and especially movies about monsters is that you _don’t_ know their capabilities and weaknesses (while they seem to be pretty sure of yours). Good post. But shouldn’t characters at least say, “Man, this sounds like a vampire.” “Boy, the books were wrong about garlic.” Or debate fast vs slow zombies. I’m trying to think of a non-horror type of ignorance that would be vital to a plot. Like if someone had never heard of Hitler/Nazis, or the American Revolution or something. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/6 "2022-08-08T15:41:14Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I thought ‘Scream’ was a little too much up its own ass Agreed. I was not impressed. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > Bram Stoker is responsible for codifying and in many cases inventing many of the features of vampire lore I read it a few years ago. Not so bad for late Victorian fiction, but it was interesting to see the bits of lore that were introduced. It really made me want to visit Whitby though. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/7 "2022-08-08T15:53:55Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > All of these have in common that they show what was thought to be sure-fire weapons against the vampires failing I liked what they did in _Fright Night._ On seeing a crucifix, the vampire briefly recoils, but then recovers with a grin: “It doesn’t work unless you _believe._” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/8 "2022-08-08T15:55:12Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > “Oh - this sounds like a werewolf. Crack out the silver bullets.” Like in Silver Bullet. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > In particular, your example of silver bullets. That’s a 20th century invention. I thought it originated with The Wolf Man (1941), but you’re probably right about it first being in print. Note that in An American Werewolf in London (1981), regular bullets can kill werewolves. What was that movie where the guy holds up a Star of David to a vampire and, when the vampire isn’t impressed, he says ‘Oh. It’s the other one, isn’t it?’ ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/9 "2022-08-08T15:55:39Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > It really made me want to visit Whitby though. I understand they’ve made a tourist industry of Dracula there. By the way, if you re-read it, I recommend an annotated edition. There are quite a few of them – two by Leonard Wolf, one by Leslie Klinger, and _Dracula Unearthed_ by Clive Leatherdale – arguably the best. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/10 "2022-08-08T15:57:39Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I liked what they did in _Fright Night._ On seeing a crucifix, the vampire briefly recoils, but then recovers with a grin: “It doesn’t work unless you _believe._” I haven’t seen _Fright Night_, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen (or at least heard about) movies where the characters got into trouble because of what they _thought_ they knew about vampires (or werewolves, or zombies) from pop culture. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/11 "2022-08-08T15:58:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > What was that movie where the guy holds up a Star of David to a vampire and, when the vampire isn’t impressed, he says ‘Oh. It’s the other one, isn’t it?’ Don’t know about that, but in _The Fearless Vampire Killers_, when a woman holds up a crucifix, the vampire says (in a heavy stereotyped “jewish” accent) “Oy, have you got the wrong vampire!” In the Marvel comic book **Tomb of Dracula** a Star of David works perfectly well against the Count. In Richard Matheson’s **I Am Legend** the hero holds off a Jewish vampire with a Torah. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/12 "2022-08-08T15:59:17Z")
People in TV & movies are traditionally unaware of TV and movies, but that’s usually to keep them from aging badly due to too many pop culture references. They should know about stuff that’s in the public domain, though. In Near Dark, they never actually use the word “vampire.” The closest they come is one of them says “We’re… different.” ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/13 "2022-08-08T16:00:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > What was that movie where the guy holds up a Star of David to a vampire and, when the vampire isn’t impressed, he says ‘Oh. It’s the other one, isn’t it?’ Reminds me of the scene in The Mummy (1999), when Imhotep is coming for Beni, and Beni is trying all of the many amulets on his necklace to see if any of them will help. The Star of David is the one that catches Imhotep’s interest. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/14 "2022-08-08T16:00:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I thought it originated with The Wolf Man (1941), but you’re probably right about it first being in print. Note that in An American Werewolf in London (1981), regular bullets can kill werewolves. In _The Wolf Man_, he is killed by being clubbed to death with a silver-handled walking stick. We don’t get silver bullets until later in the series. In 1935’s _Werewolf of London_, Universal’s first attempt at a werewolf, he is killed by (presumably lead) bullets from a policeman’s gun. There’s no reference to silver at all in that film. The movie **Johnny\_L.A.** is thinking of (“Shit, it’s the other one, isn’t it?”) is _Love at First Bite_. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/15 "2022-08-08T16:06:10Z")
I hope y’all don’t mind me mentioning something from another genre. In science fiction movies, when one character is trying to explain something about time travel to another character, it seems increasingly common for the character on-screen to say something like, “Like when xyz happened in _Back To the Future_”, and then the second character understands, responding “Oh, right.” Doc Brown had to draw diagrams on the blackboard in order for the audience to understand, but now, one throwaway line is all the writers need for exposition. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/16 "2022-08-08T16:06:14Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Like in Silver Bullet. In his _Popular Science_ column and his book **Completely Mad Science** Theodore Gray shows how to make silver bullets, but strongly suggests that you don’t try firing them. And this from a guy who tried to make salt by mixing sodium metal with chlorine gas. > **[Calling Van Helsing Popular Science column by Theodore Gray](https://periodictable.com/PopSci/2005/07/1/index.html)** > > Popular Science column Calling Van Helsing (A hands-on investigation into the myth and reality of the original anti-werewolf weapon: silver bullets.) by Theodore Gray By the way – a short story appeared in _Famous Monsters of Filmland_ back in the 1960s about a werewolf in the Old West, the last words he ever hears being “Hi-yo Silver, away!” The Lone Ranger stories were set in 19th century Texas, so if the “silver bullet” myth started in the 20th century, it couldn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/17 "2022-08-08T16:09:19Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > In _The Wolf Man_, he is killed by being clubbed to death with a silver-handled walking stick. We don’t get silver bullets until later in the series. > > In 1935’s _Werewolf of London_, Universal’s first attempt at a werewolf, he is killed by (presumably lead) bullets from a policeman’s gun. There’s no reference to silver at all in that film. Right you are! The silver-headed walking stick prop was evidently made out of rubber so no one would get hurt with it. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/18 "2022-08-08T16:13:26Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Originally it wasn’t werewolves, but _witches_ that were killed by silver bullets. Look it up. I feel like this warrants the same conclusion that was in an episode of Buffy, when they were discussing how to kill the Monster of the Week. “…and then I Stake it in the heart!” “Stake in the heart is for killing vampires” “Stake in the heart kills lots of things…” > [@Dinsdale](#): > > “Boy, the books were wrong about garlic.” Also used in _The Lost Boys_, “Garlic doesn’t work, boys!” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/XObhhoFp6G8/maxresdefault.jpg "The Lost Boys (8/10) Movie CLIP - Garlic Don't Work, Boys! (1987) HD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XObhhoFp6G8) > [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’m trying to think of a non-horror type of ignorance that would be vital to a plot. Like if someone had never heard of Hitler/Nazis, or the American Revolution or something. There was a time travel novel I read, in which the bad guy wanted to help the Confederates win the Civil War, so he took the plans and a physical copy of the [Sten submachine gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten) back in time. His plans were ultimately foiled because he used the Harper’s Ferry arsenal to build the weapons, and all his equipment was destroyed when [John Brown attacked the arsenal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XObhhoFp6G8). The hero confronts the villain after the attack, and asks him why he used a location that was going to be attacked before the proper Civil War even started, and it turned out, the villain had never heard of John Brown, and so missed this crucial bit of information. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/19 "2022-08-08T16:22:33Z")
There is a movie called, “[I Sell The Dead](https://www.google.com/search?q=I+Sell+The+Dead&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8),” about grave robbers and selling bodies to the university. It has a priceless Homer Simpson-type sequence where the GRs are picking up a corpse for the university professor (he’s blackmailing them) not realizing she’s a vampire that’s been dispatched via stake. They pull it out, she comes alive, they shove it back in, she’s dead. Out, in, out, in. And so on. Hysterical. You might want to give it a gander, there’s some funny stuff. Plus Angus Scrimm. And Ron Perlman. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307/20 "2022-08-08T16:36:27Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’ve seen (or at least heard about) movies where the characters got into trouble because of what they _thought_ they knew about vampires (or werewolves, or zombies) from pop culture. [You mean the movie _lied?_](https://coub.com/view/v24b7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ought-horror-characters-be-aware-of-horror-movies-books-open-spoilers/969307.md?page=2)