# Ouija Boards - I used to think it was bull until...... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528 "2009-02-19T09:46:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/221 "2009-02-20T12:21:29Z")
My understanding of the lotto issue: All time is before you in the spirit world, spirit guides can see your entire life based on decisions you made and deals you made before birth but after conception with those spirits, your entire life is available for them to view and guide up to a point (as those deals sell you to them - they own your life), that point is divine intervention. Spirit guides can not predict what God will do in your life, they are blinded to that. It is a barrier they can not see past. Also God will sometimes hide certain things from them, possibly lotto numbers, but more likely the path those spirits are guiding you on don’t involve hitting the lottery so they won’t tell you. Again their purpose is self serving, what they can get from you, which is relief from distress by placing that distress on you, and praise you give them for allowing you to suffer in their place. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/222 "2009-02-20T12:23:34Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > My understanding of the lotto issue: > > All time is before you in the spirit world, spirit guides can see your entire life based on decisions you made and deals you made before birth but after conception with those spirits, your entire life is available for them to view and guide up to a point (as those deals sell you to them - they own your life), that point is divine intervention. Spirit guides can not predict what God will do in your life, they are blinded to that. It is a barrier they can not see past. Also God will sometimes hide certain things from them, possibly lotto numbers, but more likely the path those spirits are guiding you on don’t involve hitting the lottery so they won’t tell you. > > Again their purpose is self serving, what they can get from you, which is relief from distress by placing that distress on you, and praise you give them for allowing you to suffer in their place. Is this from the Bible, or your imagination? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/223 "2009-02-20T12:44:48Z")
I think it’s very enlightening that two of the Straight Dope’s most, I don’t know, spiritual posters are completely at odds over what Ouija boards do and how the spirit world works. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/224 "2009-02-20T12:48:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is this from the Bible, or your imagination? It is not scriptural, it is however experiences and insight I have had filtered through the scriptures, in that I mean nothing I have stated contradicts scripture AFAIK. There are principals, such as God knowing every cast of the die, and demons (aka spirit guides) not being able to see past divine intervention, that are based in scripture. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/225 "2009-02-20T13:15:11Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > Actually, no, it isn’t. You obviously have the answers. We don’t. Please answer. > > And I second **cmyk** ’s request. I really would like to know how you know all this. You may have been there. I haven’t. The first time there was caused by a near death experience. When you go into the light, or dark light, you experience unconditional love. You also have (are given) the knowledge of all things. Every question is answered, every care and concern dismissed. While you are there your body is clinically dead. But when you go back into your body, you come alive again. Some things you remember and some you don’t. Some can meditate back, and some can’t. You find your meaning and purpose. Love. ---
**Author:** ![Roulette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Roulette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roulette)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/226 "2009-02-20T13:29:24Z")
Making sure I’m keeping up here… \*\*lekatt \*\*has anecdotal evidence about the spirit world. The spirits there live in the present and can’t see the future. Except that the past present and future all happen at the same time. Also… there are no lotteries in the spirit world. But they can obviously see enough of our world to communicate through a cheaply made cardboard medium. Not enough to communicate without said cardboard medium however. And to top it all off, lekatt knows this because he’s been to the spirit world. or seen it. Whichever. This hurts my head. I simply don’t understand how someone can get to a point where this even seems remotely logical. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/227 "2009-02-20T13:31:30Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The first time there was caused by a near death experience. When you go into the light, or dark light, you experience unconditional love. You also have (are given) the knowledge of all things. Every question is answered, every care and concern dismissed. While you are there your body is clinically dead. But when you go back into your body, you come alive again. Some things you remember and some you don’t. Some can meditate back, and some can’t. You find your meaning and purpose. Love. First let me say - and I’m not being sarcastic - that while the near death experience must be a bit of a bummer, experiencing pure love must be wonderful. But when you say that you are given knowledge of all things, do you mean all things _spiritual_, or literally all things? And if spiritual, do all people who have knowledge of God’s love come out with the same knowledge? I know you didn’t specify that you experienced a religious deity’s love and knowledge, but I’m guessing from your previous posts that you did. Taking it as read that I’m not going to put myself through a near death experience, how could I gain this love and knowledge? Bare in mind that I am an atheist, but I am a strong believer in what are commonly recognised as Christian values, such as love and compassion. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/228 "2009-02-20T13:50:40Z")
> [@Roulette](#): > > This hurts my head. I simply don’t understand how someone can get to a point where this even seems remotely logical. Hurting their head real bad? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/229 "2009-02-20T14:38:39Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The first time there was caused by a near death experience. Point of clarification- **lekatt’s** “NDE” was the result of a bad dream, and _not_ because he was actually anywhere near death. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/230 "2009-02-20T14:42:22Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > No lottery in the spirit world my friend. Great, now that I read this line I can’t help but hear it sung by Sting and will now have Spirits in the Material World stuck in my head all day. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/231 "2009-02-20T14:47:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Point of clarification- **lekatt’s** “NDE” was the result of a bad dream, and _not_ because he was actually anywhere near death. I didn’t see that post, but do you mean like a sleep paralysis experience? I’ve had those and sometimes I get the experience of observing my body, or feeling detached from it. The whole thing is so creepy but not a NDE, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/232 "2009-02-20T14:52:03Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > First let me say - and I’m not being sarcastic - that while the near death experience must be a bit of a bummer, experiencing pure love must be wonderful. But when you say that you are given knowledge of all things, do you mean all things _spiritual_, or literally all things? And if spiritual, do all people who have knowledge of God’s love come out with the same knowledge? I know you didn’t specify that you experienced a religious deity’s love and knowledge, but I’m guessing from your previous posts that you did. > > Taking it as read that I’m not going to put myself through a near death experience, how could I gain this love and knowledge? Bare in mind that I am an atheist, but I am a strong believer in what are commonly recognised as Christian values, such as love and compassion. Yes, literally all things. But can’t remember a lot of them. All gain the knowledge, but forget a lot as I did. We may remember different things. There is no religion in the spirit world, but “God” is everything. God is Love. There shoud be a better word than God, too much baggage. Atheists are welcome, all are welcome. You can experience the Love by being Love. Takes practice. Reading a lot of near death experiences will help. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/233 "2009-02-20T14:53:53Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I didn’t see that post, but do you mean like a sleep paralysis experience? I’ve had those and sometimes I get the experience of observing my body, or feeling detached from it. The whole thing is so creepy but not a NDE, obviously. C is speaking his opinion, not truth. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/234 "2009-02-20T14:59:29Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, literally all things. But can’t remember a lot of them. All gain the knowledge, but forget a lot as I did. We may remember different things. There is no religion in the spirit world, but “God” is everything. God is Love. There shoud be a better word than God, too much baggage. Atheists are welcome, all are welcome. You can experience the Love by being Love. Takes practice.. Dust. Wind. Dude. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/235 "2009-02-20T15:11:58Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The first time there was caused by a near death experience. When you go into the light, or dark light, you experience unconditional love. **You also have (are given) the knowledge of all things. Every question is answered,** every care and concern dismissed. While you are there your body is clinically dead. But when you go back into your body, you come alive again. **Some things you remember and some you don’t.** Some can meditate back, and some can’t. You find your meaning and purpose. Love. Boding mine. You were given all knowledge and all questions were answered in that short of time? I’m sure your questions were very important ones too. Do you have time for one really good revelation that you would like to share? Did you ask how to cure cancer, or anything important? If you didn’t ask anything important with the first NDE, maybe somebody needs to damn near kill you again, in hopes of bringing on another NDE if this is how important questions get answered. Maybe start lining up these NDE folk, knocking them in the head, provided that doesn’t have them forget what they are supposed to ask. Yeah, I think I’m on to something. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/236 "2009-02-20T15:31:50Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > C is speaking his opinion, not truth. What opinion? It’s right there on your website, you had a dream that you had a heart attack, then you experianced what you call an NDE. You were never diagnosed as having a heart attack by a doctor, and your conclusion that you were near death is a product of your dream. You are really doing a diservice to those people who have actually been near death, and had some kind of profound experience as a result. You just had a dream, but now fancy yourself as spiritually enlighted, and qualified as some sort of expert on NDE’s. Nothing could be further from the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/237 "2009-02-20T15:38:28Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > C is speaking his opinion, not truth. Where’d you post this? Can you repost it? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/238 "2009-02-20T15:42:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t think you grasp the full significance of this. This isn’t the longest woosh in SDMB history-this is actually the first and _only_ case of an SDMB member successfully wooshing _himself_. I believe that, according to the rules of league play, what **lekatt** did was not actually a woosh of himself. It was in fact, **lekatt** delivering an ‘Oh, Snap!’ to **lekatt** , as **lekatt** most definitely did get told by **lekatt**. Can we get a booth review? ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/239 "2009-02-20T15:52:16Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What opinion? It’s right there on your website, you had a dream that you had a heart attack, then you experianced what you call an NDE. You were never diagnosed as having a heart attack by a doctor, and your conclusion that you were near death is a product of your dream. That’s interesting. So he can’t or won’t even distinguish between those that had a NDE which were brought on by a real life threatening situation, and his dream which only had him dreaming he had a life threatening situation happen to him. Would somebody be kind enough to give a link to his website. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/240 "2009-02-20T15:54:03Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What opinion? It’s right there on your website, you had a dream that you had a heart attack, then you experianced what you call an NDE. You were never diagnosed as having a heart attack by a doctor, and your conclusion that you were near death is a product of your dream. > > You are really doing a diservice to those people who have actually been near death, and had some kind of profound experience as a result. You just had a dream, but now fancy yourself as spiritually enlighted, and qualified as some sort of expert on NDE’s. Nothing could be further from the truth. Just because Lekatt did not have anything officially diagnosed does not preclude a heart attack or NDE. At the very least it would be classified as a out of body experience, many of which are spiritual. His experiences are consistent with many other OBE and NDE. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528.md?page=13)