# Ouija Boards - I used to think it was bull until...... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528 "2009-02-19T09:46:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/281 "2009-02-21T02:42:13Z")
I’m interested in the mechanics of spiritual interaction with the physical world. Those guys in the \*Ghost Hunters \*show have been traveling all over the world trying to catch spirits with their ectoplasmic pants down, but apparently ghosts the world over are camera shy. So spirits wanting to manipulate us humans have to resort to Ouija boards. And they do this by guiding several pairs of fingertips resting on planchettes over letters of the alphabet and YES and NO. It seems fairly restrictive of them. If they really want to beguile and drive us to despair, they should more common means of communication such as TV, newspapers, Interweb…oh wait, they already do? Then why are they still using Ouija boards? That’s like buying an egg timer for the sand when you live in the Sahara Desert. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/282 "2009-02-21T02:49:58Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Why is this so difficult for you. If a seer can look into the future and see an event coming for you. This has nothing to do this the spirit world. 😕 It’s “so difficult” for me because you can’t seem to make up your mind. [I said](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10849909&postcount=168): > [@Me](#): > > If the seer is unable to take into account the things that might change the upcoming event, then they aren’t actually looking into the future; they’re basically just reading things off a calendar. [To which you responded](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10850671&postcount=179): > [@lekatt](#): > > In the spirit world events happen simultaneously. So there is no past, future, time, and space, and no calendar. _You_ are the one who brought up the spirit world. _You_ are the one confusing things. So, I don’t know why you feel the need to get pissy with me. > [@lekatt](#): > > The seer is human and can see the event, but the event may change due to the changes you make in your life after the event was seen. That is what I said. And I said, if the seer cannot see the changes that might occur that affect the event, then they are not actually seeing the future. I have an appointment with the eye doctor at 4pm on Monday. If I predict that I will be at the eye doctor at 4pm on Monday, am I looking into the future? This prediction is null-and-void if something happens to prevent my appointment (or even if I decide not to go). So, how is this different from what the seer sees? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/283 "2009-02-21T02:52:47Z")
Yes, spirits seem to be surprisingly coy. And they seem to represent themselves in the same manner as a poor Hollywood movie. Not even. Why can’t they just appear to us and get to the damn point? Why move a planchette, when they could just pick up a pen and write something. Shoot, open up Word on my computer and type me a message. It doesn’t always have to be so dramatic, does it? Or are they a vain, theatrical bunch? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/284 "2009-02-21T03:05:04Z")
Also, if these demons are so good at possession, why not just hop into the body of the entire world who’s behind the wheel, during rush hour, and cause mass chaos? Oh man, do we not see how ridiculous this all is? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/285 "2009-02-21T05:09:19Z")
Y’know, I asked myself, “Self, why have you read most of this thread?” The only honest answer was that I wished to make snarky comments that do not add to the debate. I lay myself in the hands of the mods, and beg their forgiveness. I mean, this whole thread should qualify as “extenuating circumstances,” shouldn’t it? (hopeful 🙂 ) > [@kidchameleon](#): > > 867530 I’m so confident in the quality of my mojo that I can gve you the final number of the sequence, “9.” Yes, I’m magical, but I don’t know the area code. I’ll try “312.” Tommy’s record company bought that number in 312. AREA CODE 312. They bought it in 1982. [Quote=Bryan Ekers] Is there anything that interests them which could also interest us? [/quote] > [@Cervaise](#): > > Boobies? [MadTV thinks so.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U3Cxmusq-o) > [@DocCathode](#): > > Forget Ouija boards. We all know Satan really tempts us through really hot lapsed Catholics who still have their school uniforms. They offer to perform all kinds of deviant acts if we only denounce G-d. Works for me! The nuns conditioned me to react to white blouses and plaid jumpers that no longer touched the floor when the girl kneeled. :eek: > [@AllWalker](#): > > On the graveyard level, there is a giant Ouji board, with a Cate Blanchett big enough to sit on. That’s a start, but could I buy a version with a Cate Blanchett small enough to sit on me? > [@cmyk](#): > > The brain is the seat of the spirit… No, your HEART is the seat of the spirit. Or it may be your liver. Or your pineal gland. But NOT your brain. What the hell do they teach in science classes these days? > [@RaftPeople](#): > > The spirit world is in Utah? Sweet zombie Jesus, what do I have to do to avoid it? > [@begbert2](#): > > It’s a good thing he didn’t say the spirit world had no television, or there’d be no reason to go there at all. Dude, it’s _Donnie and Marie_ and _Napoleon Dynamite_ 24-7. I will admit to having had a dream about Marie Osmond, but we didn’t do ANYTHING. Which was probably her preference. God knows I wanted to, but my wife was there. ☹ (a comment on **kanicbird** ’s theology) Bro, it’s interesting, but I lived for years by Wheaton College, a font of conservative Christianity, and they would probably exceed me in their dismissal of your apparent beliefs as heresy. Nothing personal, but you should probably find another spiritual leader before you fall too deeply into the Pit of Theological Error. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/286 "2009-02-21T05:12:44Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > \ I GET it now! > > Time is just an illuuUUUuuuussion! Lunchtime doubly so… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/287 "2009-02-21T05:21:25Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The spirit world has no lottery, no gambling, no booze, no drugs, no sex, The spirit world SUCKS. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/288 "2009-02-21T05:21:25Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > **lekatt** I know you said you’re finished but before you go… > > On the topic of NDEs… > > [wikipedia says](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDE) the following symptoms are commonly associated with the phenomenon, and these seem to mesh with what’s been described here… > > How is any of this explained by supernatural forces? When you are in that situation, your brain is starved of oxygen. When your brain is starved of oxygen, neurons either shut down or start firing chaotically. > > I submit to you, the temporal lobe, which contains the hippocampus. > > **1. A very unpleasant sound/noise is the first sensory impression to be noticed;** > Hearing is also the first thing neurologists will tell you is associated with the temporal lobe, both low level auditory processing (hearing sounds) and high level auditory processing (speech). So you hear a noise? Colour me unsurprised. > > **2. A sense of being dead** > What does this even mean? Things I would associate with this (out of body experience, lack of senses, calmness) are covered elsewhere, like… > > **3. Pleasant emotions; calmness and serenity** > Oxygen deprivation - pilots experience it under g-forces. > > **4. An out-of-body experience; a sensation of floating above one’s own body and seeing the surrounding area** > Lack of sensory input, caused by oxygen deprivation. Lying down doesn’t feel like floating, because you can feel the bed beneath you. Take away that sense, it feel like you’re floating. Add to that the fact that your sense of balance is askew, for the same reason, and it feels like you’re floating. > > **5. Floating up a blue tunnel with a strong, bright light or garden at the end** > Oxygen deprivation - pilots experience it under g-forces. This is well documented - the tunnel effect is caused by randomly firing neurons, the bright light is the same, the garden is a halluciantion. > > And guess which part of the brain is (partly) responsible for high level visual processing? > > **6. Meeting deceased relatives or spiritual figures;** > Hallucination caused by, guess what, oxygen deprivation. If you feel your body slipping away, your senses shutting down, some part of you is going to start thinking about your own mortality. Little wonder the halluciantion subject will match your train of thought. > > Point to add: not everyone meets anyone, and sometimes they meet people who are still alive. Want to know why? > > HALLUCINATION > > As I mentioned above, the temporal lobe is used for high level visual processing, as in recognition of faces and scenery. Starting to see a pattern here? > > **7. Encountering a being of light, or a light (often interpreted as being the deity or deities they personally believe in)** > See point five. Some sense are still coming through in all this oxygen deprivation, so the image of someone standing over you, coupled with the oxygen deprivation, causes a being of light to appear. Either that or it is a full blown hallucination. > > **8. Being given a life review (the “life-flashing-before-your-eyes” phenomenon)** > No mystery - the hippocampus is closely bound tot he temporal lobe, and together they are responsible for all your memory regulation. Misfiring neurons bring old memeories to the surface, whether you wanted them to or not. > > **9. Reaching a border or boundary** > I don’t know what this sensation would feel like. If it is like you were floating but you suddenly stop, it would either be your sense of balance returning, or your sense of balance disappearing entirely. > > **10. A feeling of being returned to the body, often accompanied by a reluctance.** > Wow. Isn’t that the same as saying feeling is returning, and your sense of balance is returning? Big mystery. > > **11. Feeling of warmth even though naked.** > Hippocampus is responsible for temperature regulation. Some other part of the brain is responsible for temperature sensing. > > Not addressed is the feeling of universal love and acceptance, but did you know that oxygen deprivation makes you high? A similar high to that felt by religious people, that one which makes you feel like you can sense the very heartbeat of the universe around you? That the universe is intrinsically good, and you are loved, and life is good? That feeling doesn’t come from God, at least not directly - it is built into the human brain. > > And would you look at that? All symptoms of NDE can be explained through basic neurology - in fact, most of it is isolated to the same part of the brain! There is an elegance to that, don’t you think? But you go ahead and tell yourselves that your misfiring neurons were a touch from heaven, and that science could never, _ever_ explain it away. Frankly I don’t expect much more from you. [http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/pam+reynolds#watch%3Dv152492198SHCCtT8](http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/pam+reynolds#watch%3Dv152492198SHCCtT8) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/289 "2009-02-21T05:22:19Z")
I had a weird experience usng an ouija board around ten years ago. My brother and I decided to see if there was anything to it or not, and both vowed not to purposely move the planchette. We followed the directions exactly, balancing the board on our knees, and lightly resting our fingers on the planchette. Then we waited. Nothing happened. Isn’t that strange? On TV and in books it **always** moves, but it sat there inert, as if it was just a lifeless piece of plastic. I suppose this could be proof that the spirits were not home when we attempted to contact them, but I think it’s more likely proof of something else entirely: the planchette only moves when someone pushes it. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/290 "2009-02-21T05:27:59Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > [http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/pam+reynolds#watch%3Dv152492198SHCCtT8](http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/pam+reynolds#watch%3Dv152492198SHCCtT8) Care to give me the gist of this video, anyone? I’m on an internet plan that discourages watching fifteen minute videos. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/291 "2009-02-21T05:38:32Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I had a weird experience usng an ouija board around ten years ago. My brother and I decided to see if there was anything to it or not, and both vowed not to purposely move the planchette. We followed the directions exactly, balancing the board on our knees, and lightly resting our fingers on the planchette. Then we waited. > > Nothing happened. > > Isn’t that strange? On TV and in books it **always** moves, but it sat there inert, as if it was just a lifeless piece of plastic. This is exactly what demons do all the time, sometimes. They trick you. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/292 "2009-02-21T05:48:43Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I had a weird experience usng an ouija board around ten years ago. My brother and I decided to see if there was anything to it or not, and both vowed not to purposely move the planchette. We followed the directions exactly, balancing the board on our knees, and lightly resting our fingers on the planchette. Then we waited. > > Nothing happened. > > Isn’t that strange? On TV and in books it **always** moves, but it sat there inert, as if it was just a lifeless piece of plastic. > > I suppose this could be proof that the spirits were not home when we attempted to contact them, but I think it’s more likely proof of something else entirely: the planchette only moves when someone pushes it. Exactly my experience. 😛 But you know it doesn’t work for non-believers (or in their presence). :rolleyes: Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/293 "2009-02-21T06:11:42Z")
> [@Vox\_Imperatoris](#): > > Exactly my experience. 😛 But you know it doesn’t work for non-believers (or in their presence). :rolleyes: It’s the world’s worst marketing strategy - "Hey, Coke is a delicious beverage, but only if you _believe_ it is, without doubt or reservation. Have faith in Coke." ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/294 "2009-02-21T06:28:20Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > Care to give me the gist of this video, anyone? I’m on an internet plan that discourages watching fifteen minute videos. It can be downloaded for free. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/295 "2009-02-21T06:31:18Z")
…though it’s still 15mins of Barnumism in action. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/296 "2009-02-21T06:38:50Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > …though it’s still 15mins of Barnumism in action. Free and 15 minutes long? Such a thing is impossible by the rules of reality. The supernatural must be true! ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/297 "2009-02-21T07:08:10Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > The spirit world is in Utah? Actually, Spirit World is located in scenic midtown Omaha [Nebraska](http://www.spiritworldwine.com/). They stock wine, beer and liquor as well as a variety of the freshest homemade salads, soups and sandwiches… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/298 "2009-02-21T11:58:09Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > Care to give me the gist of this video, anyone? I’m on an internet plan that discourages watching fifteen minute videos. I have something like that, but it’s nothing to do with an internet plan. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/299 "2009-02-21T13:07:04Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > Care to give me the gist of this video, anyone? I’m on an internet plan that discourages watching fifteen minute videos. It’s OK for you to say you didn’t want to dignify lekatt’s link with a click. Never fear, I personally have about 13 minutes worth of dignity. From what I gathered, it’s scientific proof that when somebody’s having a brain aneurism, something happens. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/300 "2009-02-21T13:08:44Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > **Kanicbird,** what of this? **lekatt** has been givin a gift — all knowledge of the afterlife and spiritual world, and he knows for a fact that there is no such thing as demons, satan or any other sort of evil entity. Yet, you claim to do warfare against such things all the time. How can this be? > > You are both obviously right, since you have both experienced “God” in a very real way, and have faith that cannot be shaken. So, how is this paradox unraveled? lekatt’s spirits are demons who are deceiving him. Spirit guides in modern day mysticism used to be called guides to human destiny by the Greeks in their religion w/ the Mount Olympus gods (this also goes for Egyptian, Roman, Wiccan etc. it is the same gods in different costumes) . They would be assigned people to guide them through life, some were considered good others evil, but in general were considered neutral. The Greek word for these spirit guides is δαιμονες, or it’s more modern forms daemon, daimon, demon, which Jesus revealed as evil, powerful and deceptive (along with the power to tell the future btw). Modern day mysticism is the Greek religion with Greek gods under different names. It is the Satanic power structure, but as Jesus revealed them as evil, Jesus is needed in the person to reveal them as evil, which it appears lekatt does not have, or at least is ignoring Him. The Ouiji board is just a idol to communicate with ‘household gods’ or the modern term ‘spirit guide’. But lekatt has experienced the spiritual and that is sometimes very hard on a person. The hardest part for some is people not believing your experience is real, it makes one feel isolated or worse, makes you feel that you are mentally ill because everyone tells you it’s not real. Telling people that they are defective and real stuff that exists and they witnessed is not real can be very damaging to a person. I know what lekatt has experienced is very real, just his interpretation I disagree with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528.md?page=16)