# Ouija Boards - I used to think it was bull until...... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528 "2009-02-19T09:46:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/341 "2009-02-22T22:25:50Z")
> [@martin2588](#): > > Since the original posting we have contacted a professor at Liverpool University UK. At his initial request we performed the same “trick” as last week and with his students viewing, researching and partaking to try and reduce “trickery” we got the same results. I and another have been invited to attend the university to try and get these reults within a contained and clean scientific environment. A contract has been signed on the right of any filming and therefore we will have the results (if any) available on film in a controlled environment and certified within a few months. Not a good choice of words, to say “we performed the same ‘trick’ as last week.” Regardless, scientists, even professors are often duped by children. I hope your experiment has at least one good magician sitting in. At some point you might want to contact the James Randi Educational Foundation website which has been mentioned. I’m sure they can get you in contact with someone in your area that will agree to sit in and observe. And if you really think there is something to it, and would like a million dollars for your effort, let’s see if you even get past their preliminary tests. Better hurry though because after some nearly ten years of offering it, they feel like it’s time to move on and will no longer offer it up after about another year or so. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/342 "2009-02-22T22:47:48Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Really, and who determines outrageous claims, skeptics, of course. No, anyone can determine what seems like an outrageous claim. But if you accept claims without evidence that people float outside their bodies and have toys that contact dead people, you’re without a healthy, rational amount of skepticism. > [@lekatt](#): > > You didn’t listen to the video, the doctors backed up her claims. Real people who have seen that video seem to understand it ok. I did listen to the video. Where do you think I got the quote from Dr. Spetzler that said he’s not so arrogant as to be able say that there’s no way it can happen, unlike you? He never claimed that he could back up that she actually left her body, so stop making stuff up. And as usual, you’re skirting the issue of the validity of the Wikipedia article. All of the critical claims have references and can be verified. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/343 "2009-02-22T22:54:12Z")
> [@martin2588](#): > > … external male sex organ that is used to copulate and ejaculate semen and to convey urine outside the body. Really? Is THAT what it’s for? And here I’ve been using mine to drive rivets. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/344 "2009-02-22T23:28:48Z")
martin2588, there’s another difference between your lack of knowledge of the facts that, since at least the time of the ancient Greeks, everyone has known that the world is round and my putative lack of knowledge of the Battle of Wigan. The Battle of Wigan has nothing to do with this thread. On the other hand, you claimed that at some point (presumably just before Columbus sailed) most people thought that the world was flat. That’s wrong. What you’re doing is making the “They all laughed at Christopher Columbus” argument, and that’s a worthless sort of argument. They didn’t laugh at Christopher Columbus. The people who disagreed with him were actually more correct than he was. They knew the true diameter of the Earth. Columbus greatly underestimated it. Nobody thought he was stupid, evil, or ignorant in wanting to sail aross the Pacific to reach Asia. They just thought that the trip was too long. (And if the Americas hadn’t been there, it would have been too long.) In fact, it’s in general not true that famous scientists who proposed radical new theories were laughed at. Usually the theories were carefully considered. Sometimes it took a long time for them to be accepted, but they weren’t considered ridiculous. If it took a while for them to become a part of ordinary science, it was because other scientists needed proof for the new theories. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/345 "2009-02-22T23:57:37Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Some people like Silvia Brown has a > From my own experience working with people with very low authority, what I have found they need is Love, non-sexual human contact (holding their hands), to be there for them, to listen to them. Many have had no childhood to speak of, and in many ways that has to be rebuild, and that seems to increase their authority. The worst cases IMHO are children that were unwanted in the womb. > > Just to add, modern day therapy is the exact opposite of what they need, as they are not suppose to get emotionally attached, but that is exactly what they need, someone who truly Loves them. Therapy just beats them into submission, forcing them to act normal enough, but bearing and hiding the pain in themselves. If you’re trying to imply I didn’t have love, or was unwanted, or had no childhood-sorry pal, that wasn’t the case. I had a wonderful childhood, and wonderful parents-and a super extended family. My family was certainly there for me-but they couldn’t stop the obsessions. They couldn’t stop the depression. I WAS loved, and I DID have someone to be there. My mother held me, and rocked me (even though I was 18 at the time), and it still didn’t help. It didn’t stop until I got proper therapy and medication. I still got support from my family-and yes, I needed that too-but “love” alone was not the answer. And the implication that I wasn’t Loved I find highly offensive. > [@RickJay](#): > > Really? Is THAT what it’s for? And here I’ve been using mine to drive rivets. How _you_ doin’? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/346 "2009-02-23T00:01:50Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Really, and who determines outrageous claims, skeptics, of course. You didn’t listen to the video, the doctors backed up her claims. Real people who have seen that video seem to understand it ok. **lekatt** , you still haven’t responded to my analysis of the wiki article of the video (post 307). If wiki has misrepresented the facts, please correct me. If not, please address my scientific, logical, consistant and Occam’s-razory argument. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/347 "2009-02-23T00:17:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > If you’re trying to imply I didn’t have love, or was unwanted, or had no childhood-sorry pal, that wasn’t the case. I had a wonderful childhood, and wonderful parents-and a super extended family. My family was certainly there for me-but they couldn’t stop the obsessions. They couldn’t stop the depression. I WAS loved, and I DID have someone to be there. My mother held me, and rocked me (even though I was 18 at the time), and it still didn’t help. > > It didn’t stop until I got proper therapy and medication. I still got support from my family-and yes, I needed that too-but “love” alone was not the answer. And the implication that I wasn’t Loved I find highly offensive. I didn’t mention ‘obsession’ or ‘depression’ just ‘authority’. The way it appears the parents can build their child’s authority up to a certain level, but that level is fixed. Without Love that authority is at zero level remains empty, but can be filled later in life. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/348 "2009-02-23T04:15:06Z")
That still doesn’t answer how you find out if someone’s delusional or not. If someone is schizophrenic, you’re not going to be able to talk them out of their delusions. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/349 "2009-02-23T04:25:14Z")
> [@martin2588](#): > > I am still as skeptical as many on this forum but cant help thinking what if? There is as yet no logical explanation offered anyone who has attended both sessions (if thats what they are called) \*\*Most of the explanations on this forum are immediately discounted (I apologise, I didnt explain events well enough) because of the situation (barring multiple spy cameras put around my house without me knowing and without me still finding) \*\* Yes, your explanation was quite general. Maybe you could explain it a bit more coherently? Answer me this. Did the person or persons that wrote the word or drew the object elsewhere return to the room and participate in the actual hands on “ouija divination”? Were they entirely isolated from the table **and room** or not? What does your friend Paul have to do with this? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/350 "2009-02-23T04:48:38Z")
> [@martin2588](#): > > Since the original posting we have contacted a professor at Liverpool University UK. At his initial request we performed the same “trick” as last week and with his students viewing, researching and partaking to try and reduce “trickery” we got the same results. What’s the professor’s name? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/351 "2009-02-23T05:07:09Z")
> [@martin2588](#): > > Oh, and on a personal note, I find people who spend all day looking in a dictionary and theasaurus to find the most complicated and in their eyes intellectual way of saying something simply, hilarious. I can’t help thinking they are over compensating for something? Perhaps an underdeveloped external male sex organ that is used to copulate and ejaculate semen and to convey urine outside the body. Whereas, on a professional note, I find posters who deliberately insult other posters in this Forum to be in violation of the rules of this Forum. Do not repeat this behavior. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/352 "2009-02-23T05:17:59Z")
And on another personal note, I can’t believe we’ve had an eight-page discussion about _Ouija boards_ on the _SDMB_. :eek: At least I did learn that the way it is pronounced is totally unlike the way I’ve ever heard anyone say it (Wee-gee, if you must know). Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/353 "2009-02-23T06:34:15Z")
> [@martin2588](#): > > Since the original posting we have contacted a professor at Liverpool University UK. At his initial request we performed the same “trick” as last week and with his students viewing, researching and partaking to try and reduce “trickery” we got the same results. I and another have been invited to attend the university to try and get these reults within a contained and clean scientific environment. A contract has been signed on the right of any filming and therefore we will have the results (if any) available on film in a controlled environment and certified within a few months. You may want to recruit an expert on trickery and illusion on to your team. In the past, a number of psychic tests have gone badly because the protocol was not reviewed by a consulting magician. [UK Skeptics](http://www.skeptics.org.uk/) might provide a helpful referral. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/354 "2009-02-23T12:42:02Z")
A few points: There is a clear distinction between what is believed and what is actual. Reality can be determined many ways, and consensus is one of many such ways. One must strive to eliminate facile resolutions which support personal bias. Less than optimal controls in experiments often lead to errors in this area of personal bias. Lots of people have made claims pertaining to the supernatural, thus far none have stood up to rigorous review. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/355 "2009-02-23T13:17:35Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > At one time I served demons, I repented of that and now serve the Lord Jesus. It doesn’t change what I have done in my past, nor am I barred of talking about it. You’ve mentioned this before, but you didn’t go into much detail. What do these demons look like? Do they have red skin, little horns and pointy tails like the paintings of old? Did the ones you served have names? What did they try to get you to do? This info could prove useful if some of us stray. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/356 "2009-02-23T13:34:15Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > That still doesn’t answer how you find out if someone’s delusional or not. If someone is schizophrenic, you’re not going to be able to talk them out of their delusions. My suggestion is to have a good understanding of the spiritual and talk with them and pray with them. It really requires God’s leading and guidance to get at the root issue (i.e. lack of authority). IMHO : Since you mentioned depression above, it _may_ be that a person is in touch with their heart/soul enough to feel that there is something that makes them sad, but their mind is/may be blocking the cause. Such medications helps us block out what our heart is feeling, hiding our heart from ourselves, alcohol, illegal drugs, sex, thrill seeking can also do this and many turn to them. Therapy teaches us methods to believe our heart is not in pain, to ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/357 "2009-02-23T13:53:47Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > You’ve mentioned this before, but you didn’t go into much detail. What do these demons look like? Do they have red skin, little horns and pointy tails like the paintings of old? Did the ones you served have names? What did they try to get you to do? This info could prove useful if some of us stray. They have/can take on may forms, I have seen them as appearing as human (males/females and babies), animals, a pig faces little imp, shadow creatures, and disfigured spirits. This is a link to a video testimony that is a very accurate representation of the spirits and Holy Angels IMHO. Bishop Kelly’s physical life is nothing like mine, but his spiritual life is a pretty good match for what I experienced. > **[Bishop "Earthquake" Kelley - Heaven Testimony](http://www.freecdtracts.com/testimony/bishop_earthquake_kelley.htm)** This video I first saw **after** I saw the demons and one Holy Angel. What I saw was so very close to what is represented in the video. The demons are the disfigured spirits, the ones I saw were just a bit ‘greener’ in color, but other then that matched exactly. The holy angel was also pretty much a exact match. They do have names, they tried to get me to go deeper into the occult, which lead to astral projection, I stopped at using it to a/effect other people, actually I believe God prevented me, as I remember I was about to touch a person I knew and I just stopped and knew I should not. I don’t know what would have happened if I did. This is SOP for them even when you don’t see them, they get you to do something wrong, then once they get a hook in you they try to get you to expand that till you are hurting yourself and/or others. Very evident in drug use, but it applies for all their things, even the worship of money. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/358 "2009-02-23T14:04:34Z")
You’re not making much sense. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/359 "2009-02-23T14:09:33Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > You’re not making much sense. Then just watch the video I linked to if you want to see what demons look like and how they act. btw It’s the 1st video on that link. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/360 "2009-02-23T14:29:28Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Then just watch the video I linked to if you want to see what demons look like and how they act. Have you seen [HellBoy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hellboy_Shot_2.jpg)? Are there any demons like that? And, do they smoke cigars? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528.md?page=19)