# Ouija Boards - I used to think it was bull until...... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528 "2009-02-19T09:46:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/481 "2009-02-25T12:59:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, actually, what tends to happen in these cases is the professional gets emotionally involved, the autistic child or whatever never gets any better, the invested professional suffers depression and burnout and a promising career that might have lasted decades and helped hundreds (even a little) gets cut short, possibly ending for the professional in suicide. This “don’t get emotionally involved” thing isn’t callous - it’s a method for keeping the professionals able to come in every day to do their jobs. This is the difference between the love of man and the Love of God. These people truly have the heart of God, an inexhaustible supply. In my experience, which has happened many times, when the Lord sends me to do His work, I get His strength, It does not tap my own at all. This is something in scripture “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” - Paul. Working in the power of God is awesome as will not lead to the above. This is the very reason God is sending these people to these autistic children, they will not be effected by burnout as those who are operating in human strength. > [@](#): > > By the way, what happens when a man is eventually reliably reported to have lived longer than 120 years? With medical advances, I can’t imagine this is far off. The limit will be what God states, medical science doesn’t even know what spirit is, and that it what life is, so they are not even looking in the right place. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/482 "2009-02-25T13:10:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > … > > I notice you forgot to respond to my last post or two, **kanicbird**. Any thoughts? Show me a sign! I didn’t forget, they just didn’t seem like you were looking for a comment, but just wanted to be intentionally oppositional. [QUOTE=kb] Then why are professionals instructed/trained not to get emotionally attached, this is the same for any therapy ? [/QUOTE] > [@m](#): > > Cite please. This was answered by: [QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Well, actually, what tends to happen in these cases is the professional gets emotionally involved, the autistic child or whatever never gets any better, the invested professional suffers depression and burnout and a promising career that might have lasted decades and helped hundreds (even a little) gets cut short, possibly ending for the professional in suicide. This “don’t get emotionally involved” thing isn’t callous - it’s a method for keeping the professionals able to come in every day to do their jobs. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=kb] The world is training people to withhold the very thing that they need to get better. [/QUOTE] > [@m](#): > > This is pure bullshit. As I said, I hope these people disregarded your comments immediately. What do you want me to say to this, we need more pure bullshit in this world and less of the impure bullshit? You are again on the side of withholding Love from children, are you sure you want to be on that side? > [@m](#): > > I’m glad you enjoy these illusions. I’ve had some very enjoyable ones myself, but I don’t prescribe them as medical cures. Considering you agree with withholding Love from children, for now at least, I’d say it sounds good that you are not using them to heal people. > [@m](#): > > God doesn’t raise children, people do. Unfortunately for way to many this is sadly the case. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/483 "2009-02-25T13:16:13Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I didn’t forget, they just didn’t seem like you were looking for a comment, but just wanted to be intentionally oppositional. Only because you’re wrong. > [@](#): > > This was answered by These people do what they do because they love children. Yes, it’s true they are encouraged to maintain some level of detachment. This is because _hugs don’t cure autism_, and it’s important to consider the needs of the children. > [@](#): > > What do you want me to say to this, we need more pure bullshit in this world and less of the impure bullshit? I suppose I’d prefer you to stick to reality in your claims or to support them with facts. > [@](#): > > You are again on the side of withholding Love from children, are you sure you want to be on that side? This is the second time you’ve made this absolutely ridiculous statement. > [@](#): > > Considering you agree with withholding Love from children, for now at least, I’d say it sounds good that you are not using them to heal people. Okay, make that three times. Like I said: I don’t pretend my illusions are unbelievable insights or that they are medical cures that will work on other people, as you apparently do. I’m not against loving children. But your claim that autistic children just need “Love” is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/484 "2009-02-25T13:17:34Z")
God wasn’t much of a parent either, you know. His kid was always hanging out with hookers and tax collectors, and ended up in trouble with the law. Mote, eye, log. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/485 "2009-02-25T13:30:36Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > God wasn’t much of a parent either, you know. His kid was always hanging out with hookers and tax collectors, and ended up in trouble with the law. Mote, eye, log. Well, and then there was that whole “Hey Abraham, go kill your son…No Wait! Just kidding” bit. That might leave a touch of a scar, psychologically speaking, on a child. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/486 "2009-02-25T13:53:27Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > As for our capacity, my understanding is God tells us at creation don’t deal with them, we disobey because we want a shiny new car. No it doesn’t sound fair to me either. If God’s telling us not to listen to demons while we’re fetuses, he’s just flapping his lips. We haven’t developed ears yet. We can’t drive cars either, shiny or not. > [@](#): > > According to scriptures 1/3 of the angels fell, so 2/3 are still holy. Plus the power of God is far above theirs Not powerful enough apparently, if he can’t keep demons from existentially raping us before we even exist. > [@](#): > > God is omnipresent, there is no once they leave. I can pray to Jesus with Him standing right infront of me while my friend does the same where he is. At this point demons can tempt us, and we can get sidetracted for a while but God is in control of our lives at this point. I know a lot of Christians believe that once they’re saved, they are permanently protected from hell’s influence. But they still sin. If demons can’t touch them, then they sin on their own and are solely accountable for their actions. Could it be they sinned on their own before they got saved? > [@](#): > > Logic in our universe doesn’t apply for another one. The best way I can describe it is they can see out entire life at every moment in theirs. A little back there was a description of a LSD ‘trip’ to IMHO the spiritual world (Also IMHO there is a reason it’s called a ‘trip’), their description sounded like their entire life they saw. While they would have seen it all simultaneously, our physical minds can’t handle that, so would set it in order. You’re basing some guy’s LSD trip as verification for your own beliefs? That’s kind of stretching it, don’t you think? I’ve had mushroom trips where I thought tree bark was a living colony of mutant octopuses. Did I see into the spirit world? Demons were tempting that tree! > [@](#): > > How about something along the lines of Bill Gates then? Not mentioning the part that you will be secretly in intense pain and a heroine addict. Gates is a heroin addict? No wonder he sells so many computers. That’s an expensive habit to support! > [@](#): > > How can God let one of His children die in a state to go to Hell when they still have some of that time 120 years remaining? That goes to your reincarnation theory. Maybe when we kick off before our 120 years are up, we come back in another life and make up the rest. > [@](#): > > How can anyone live in a fish for 3 days? There is a form of ‘living’ in death. Eat hunks of fish flesh off the walls maybe? If you’re saying living in a fish is like being dead, then that means the Bible CAN be metaphorical. A literal interpretation of a passage may not be correct! ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/487 "2009-02-25T15:28:39Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Well, and then there was that whole “Hey Abraham, go kill your son…No Wait! Just kidding” bit. That might leave a touch of a scar, psychologically speaking, on a child. Or as I heard it more recently put into kid-speak: “Abraham, you must kill your son Isaac.” “PSYCH !!!” ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/488 "2009-02-25T15:38:17Z")
My take on the whole Isaac thing- Warning may contain witnessing. Abe knows his son won’t be killed. When G-d asks it, Abe is basically responding to Penn Gillette pulling out a lighter and asking for a 20 dollar bill. He doesn’t really think Ike will be killed. He thinks he’ll see a good trick. My reasoning is based on the fact that Abe does not negotiate with G-d. Contrast this to Abe’s reaction when G-d says “I’m gonna smite me some Sodom and Gammorah.” Then, Abe knows G-d is serious and says 'Wait! Don’t do it! If I can find 10 righteous men, will you spare the cities?" So, either Abe cares more about a bunch of strangers than his own son, or he never negotiates over Ike because he knows Ike is never in any real danger. ---
**Author:** ![katannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@katannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/katannah)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/489 "2009-02-25T16:52:42Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Well, we’ve determined that the boards are powered by either the ideometer effect, cheating participants, or spoooOOOoooOOOoooky supernatural entities. You left out the idiot effect. Not intended as slander, insults, harrassment, or threats against the OP. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![katannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@katannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/katannah)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/490 "2009-02-25T16:58:46Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > This was answered by: > > Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers > Well, actually, what tends to happen in these cases is the professional gets emotionally involved,\*\* the autistic child or whatever never gets any better\*\*, the invested professional suffers depression and burnout and a promising career that might have lasted decades and helped hundreds (even a little) gets cut short, possibly ending for the professional in suicide. This “don’t get emotionally involved” thing isn’t callous - it’s a method for keeping the professionals able to come in every day to do their jobs. > You are again on the side of withholding Love from children, are you sure you want to be on that side? > Considering you agree with withholding Love from children, for now at least, I’d say it sounds good that you are not using them to heal people. You used your quote as an example of professionals being trained not to get attached to children. And yet, please consider what the bolded section says. So if the selection you chose is what you want to use to affirm your argument, then the part that is bolded is just as valid as what you chose to take from the selection. One more thing for you to consider. It’s pretty demeaning and abusive of you, not to mention blindly arrogant, to assume that a professional’s love for an autistic child will necessarily be of higher quality or more importance than the love of the parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters, other relatives, family friends, and neighbors. How dare you? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/491 "2009-02-25T17:21:29Z")
> [@katannah](#): > > So if the selection you chose is what you want to use to affirm your argument, then the part that is bolded is just as valid as what you chose to take from the selection. It’s different, you see, because **kanicbird** “felt lead to share” his uninformed advice. That makes it more valid. ---
**Author:** ![katannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@katannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/katannah)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/492 "2009-02-25T17:29:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s different, you see, because **kanicbird** “felt lead to share” his uninformed advice. That makes it more valid. :smack: How foolish of me. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/493 "2009-02-25T18:13:57Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > If God’s telling us not to listen to demons while we’re fetuses, he’s just flapping his lips. We haven’t developed ears yet. We can’t drive cars either, shiny or not. IMHO We are fully formed souls fully conscious and capable of understanding. When we integrate into our bodies and minds we have to figure out how they work. > [@](#): > > Not powerful enough apparently, if he can’t keep demons from existentially raping us before we even exist. Again we are fully formed already. Why Satan gets to tempt us I’m not sure, but it might have something to do with God forming man a little lower then angels, and perhaps the deal God made with angels. > [@](#): > > I know a lot of Christians believe that once they’re saved, they are permanently protected from hell’s influence. But they still sin. If demons can’t touch them, then they sin on their own and are solely accountable for their actions. Could it be they sinned on their own before they got saved? Once your saved you are saved, it’s something we can’t earn, it’s a free gift, and as such can’t be taken away. There are saved people who IMHO have been to Hell. The reason seems to be 2 fold, 1 to have testimony that hell is real, and 2, to scare someone who has shipwrecked their faith, if this level of pressure is needed, to get them back in line with God’s will. It’s not that demon’s can’t touch them however, it is that demons can’t control their lives. Demons want to inflict torment on us, if God allows them to touch us for a time they will, but God will just use them to mold us further into His likeness. > [@](#): > > You’re basing some guy’s LSD trip as verification for your own beliefs? That’s kind of stretching it, don’t you think? I’ve had mushroom trips where I thought tree bark was a living colony of mutant octopuses. Did I see into the spirit world? Demons were tempting that tree! Not as verification of my beliefs, but I just suggested what I got from that information, a possible spiritual explanation. As for your school of octopi I’d say you saw the ocean floor if anything. > [@](#): > > Gates is a heroin addict? No wonder he sells so many computers. That’s an expensive habit to support! And I didn’t even mention the hemorrhoids, are you still sure you want this deal? That goes to your reincarnation theory. Maybe when we kick off before our 120 years are up, we come back in another life and make up the rest. I’m not exactly ready to make that leap, but can’t rule it out either. John the Baptist seems to have been ‘born again in the Kingdom of God’, as the Holy Spirit was on him from birth, actually before birth. And the ‘Kingdom of God is among’ us. Is it possible, that interwoven with our fallen world, is the Kingdom of God, some people we see around us may be living in another kingdom. Peter talks about his physical body as a ‘tent’, which holds his core being. So if it is a form of reincarnation it is not multiple lives as commonly expressed but a single life in multiple bodies. > [@](#): > > Eat hunks of fish flesh off the walls maybe? > If you’re saying living in a fish is like being dead, then that means the Bible CAN be metaphorical. A literal interpretation of a passage may not be correct! He may have had food, but he should have made it 3 days without food. It was the lack of air (which is Spirit) which would be the tough one to buy. Does these 3 days in Sheol count towards the 120 year limit? I don’t think so as the Spirit had to leave him. It does not appear metaphorical according the Jesus: [QUOTE=Matthew 12:40] For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. [/QUOTE] And Jesus relates 3 days in the fish to His 3 days in the heart of the earth (i.e. underground, where Jonah sank down to.) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/494 "2009-02-25T18:24:29Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > My take on the whole Isaac thing- Warning may contain witnessing. > > Abe knows his son won’t be killed. When G-d asks it, Abe is basically responding to Penn Gillette pulling out a lighter and asking for a 20 dollar bill. He doesn’t really think Ike will be killed. He thinks he’ll see a good trick. > > My reasoning is based on the fact that Abe does not negotiate with G-d. Contrast this to Abe’s reaction when G-d says “I’m gonna smite me some Sodom and Gammorah.” Then, Abe knows G-d is serious and says 'Wait! Don’t do it! If I can find 10 righteous men, will you spare the cities?" > > So, either Abe cares more about a bunch of strangers than his own son, or he never negotiates over Ike because he knows Ike is never in any real danger. Issac was the desire of Abraham’s (and Sarah’s) heart. After forsaking everything following the Lord, the Lord finally gives them what He know they desire. The test is who do you want more, God or your son. It is also a ultimate lesson in trusting God with the thing you most love, giving that up to God. This is also the test that God did Himself, by sending His Son, in theory God could have split Himself. There is a time leading up to the crucifixion where Jesus says that He could call legions of angels down to fight for Him. This IMHO would cause a split between Father and Son, and Jesus would be with us, but away from the Father. He had to be willing to follow God’s plan causing temporary separation of both Father and us from Him, and trust in the Father that He would bring everyone back. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/495 "2009-02-25T18:29:21Z")
> [@katannah](#): > > You used your quote as an example of professionals being trained not to get attached to children. > > And yet, please consider what the bolded section says. > > So if the selection you chose is what you want to use to affirm your argument, then the part that is bolded is just as valid as what you chose to take from the selection. The part that makes the difference is the power of God. It’s not the love of parents that heal, it is the Love of God through whoever He decides. It’s not the hug that heals, it is the touch of God. > [@](#): > > One more thing for you to consider. It’s pretty demeaning and abusive of you, not to mention blindly arrogant, to assume that a professional’s love for an autistic child will necessarily be of higher quality or more importance than the love of the parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters, other relatives, family friends, and neighbors. How dare you? Sorry, perhaps I mistyped, it’s not the professional’s love that is going to do it, it is the Love of God. That Love comes through people He selects. It’s not the person’s love at all that’s going to do this. Again let me make it clear, it is the Love of the Lord God Almighty that will do it, no human love component is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/496 "2009-02-25T18:34:37Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Again let me make it clear, it is the Love of the Lord God Almighty that will do it, no human love component is needed. So why were you bothering the human caregivers, then? ---
**Author:** ![katannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@katannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/katannah)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/497 "2009-02-25T18:35:00Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The part that makes the difference is the power of God. It’s not the love of parents that heal, it is the Love of God through whoever He decides. It’s not the hug that heals, it is the touch of God. > > Sorry, perhaps I mistyped, it’s not the professional’s love that is going to do it, it is the Love of God. That Love comes through people He selects. It’s not the person’s love at all that’s going to do this. > > Again let me make it clear, it is the Love of the Lord God Almighty that will do it, no human love component is needed. Then why would someone’s training make a difference whatsoever? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/498 "2009-02-25T18:48:37Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > My take on the whole Isaac thing- Warning may contain witnessing. > > Abe knows his son won’t be killed. When G-d asks it, Abe is basically responding to Penn Gillette pulling out a lighter and asking for a 20 dollar bill. He doesn’t really think Ike will be killed. He thinks he’ll see a good trick. > > My reasoning is based on the fact that Abe does not negotiate with G-d. Contrast this to Abe’s reaction when G-d says “I’m gonna smite me some Sodom and Gammorah.” Then, Abe knows G-d is serious and says 'Wait! Don’t do it! If I can find 10 righteous men, will you spare the cities?" > > So, either Abe cares more about a bunch of strangers than his own son, or he never negotiates over Ike because he knows Ike is never in any real danger. I’ve never really cared all that much about how Abraham felt about it, at least not in relationship to how Isaac felt about it. Now that’s gonna leave a mark. “Hey dad, remember that time you marched me out to the chopping block to kill me? I bet the look on my face was priceless!” In your analogy, it depends on whether the $20 bill is in on the whole thing, and whether it finds the setup of the trick to be a laugh riot. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/499 "2009-02-25T19:07:41Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The limit will be what God states, medical science doesn’t even know what spirit is, and that it what life is, so they are not even looking in the right place. Thast’s very poetic of you, but seriously, what are you going to do when the Guinness Book of World Records reports a man who’s lived past 120? Expanding slightly on an earlier statment of mine, it isn’t just people who work with autisitic children who try not to get emotionally involved, but also doctors and social workers and police officers and such, who deal with with heart-breaking and/or horrific cases that, even if resolved positively, get replaced by an endless stream of equally-horrific new cases. I suppose being a missionary for Jesus is somewhat different - some people might get burned out if they go for years without converting anyone, but some relish the ridicule and challenge and derision because of the martyrdom mindset where suffering for your cause is not only good, but expected, and increases one’s chance of a rewarding afterlife. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/500 "2009-02-25T19:37:15Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I don’t know for all cases but in general it would seem to be a curse. Looking at scripture women who are barren are longing for children. Our society has turned that on it’s head so to speak, teaching women that children are unfair burdens, IMHO they learn to lie to themselves. Women have traded happiness for the pursuit of happiness. There head overrides their heart. The ‘ticking biological clock’ would seem to be a modern day way of confirmation of my statement. > > Her not choosing to have children is her head overriding her heart, she will bear that pain but convince herself it’s not there. Some might have sad moments when they think of having their own children, feelings of emptiness, then convince themselves otherwise. Wow. So like, when my aunt had endometriosis, and had to have a hysterectomy, she was cursed? What about people who adopt? Or hell, what about NUNS? Are they bearing pain and lying to themselves? :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528.md?page=26)