# Ouija Boards - I used to think it was bull until...... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528 "2009-02-19T09:46:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/581 "2009-02-27T04:22:26Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > This is also interesting in terms of multiple partner females, if she has sex, trying to avoid pregnancy through contraceptives a child could be created spiritually. Once she marries and desires children the children may not be the husbands, but the former sex partners. This would cause less bonding between father and child, and overall a falling away of the apparent necessity of the father figure. Where, oh WHERE did you come up with this bullshit, **Kanicbird**? Because in nine years of Catholic school, and four years in a Catholic college, I never, EVER heard anything like this. Ever. And would the reverse be true-if the husband had multiple partners, but used a condom? (To avoid diseases, as well. You do realize that anothe reason that contraceptives are used is to prevent disease, NOT just pregnancy, right?) 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/582 "2009-02-27T04:25:09Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Where, oh WHERE did you come up with this bullshit, **Kanicbird**? Because in nine years of Catholic school, and four years in a Catholic college, I never, EVER heard anything like this. Ever. I think I speak for us all when I ask- Do you still have the uniform? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/583 "2009-02-27T04:49:29Z")
No, because I wore the skirts or jumpers when I was 11. In 7th and 8th grades, I just wore navy slacks and white or light blue shirts. Sorry. (Plus the skirts and jumpers were butt-ugly. The material was cheap, the plaid was fug, and they were designed for little kids.) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/584 "2009-02-27T04:54:30Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. > > I’ve already gone into this one, the curse, even death is sometimes needed for them to get eternal life. The curses are not for punishment but discipline, it is what the people need to live the eternal blessed life. Even in His curses He is merciful. Even in His curses He is merciful? That really would not be comforting to any son or father that was blown to bits or crushed by order of the same god. “Destroyed” is not a temporary state. One reason why I consider a deistic god to be a better option is that the bible god does not care about cutting short the life of many on the way to teach a “merciful” lesson even to a third party. Just ask the sons and daughters of Job. ---
**Author:** ![katannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@katannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/katannah)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/585 "2009-02-27T06:33:31Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Please provide book,chapter verse of this use of wind please Wind? I said “spirit.” You’re the one who said wind was always the same thing as spirit. Either way… I don’t think we’re going to have a meaningful conversation. I resent the way you interpret other religions’ documents to suit your own needs, and I resent your blithe assurance that of course you’re right because you’re divinely inspired and anyone else who says they’re divinely inspired but doesn’t agree with you has actually been deceived by demons or Satan himself. I sincerely hope these “throw away” children in whose presence you’ve been lately have not been left in your care for extended periods of time. I don’t think it’s healthy for you or them. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/586 "2009-02-27T15:12:53Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Now I know you are just screwing with us. It sounds more and more like you just make it up as you go along. Congratulations for keeping it up so long. Bear with me and I think you may see that this is scripturally provable and explains the world around us much better then science and medical science does, and shows the inadequacy of both science and medicine (just as God says btw). Please put aside your would view and try to understand this as a new world/universe. The theory is that there are 4 levels of this fallen world. Some things/people span multiple, some only some or one. The top level is the closest to God, God provides most of our needs, the bottom one is the deepest one that has most of the control under Satan, were humans are enslaved and forced to do what God was willing to provide. Above the 4 levels is the Kingdom of God (a 5th level), below the 4 is Sheol (level 6), below that hell (l7). Each level is physically ‘lower’ then the other, but they intersect and interact, though there are some things and people in one level that can never interact with another. People today exist in these levels, some people who live in the upper life appear greatly blessed, have advantages way beyond what ‘normal people do’, then there are people who struggle and can never get ahead, and some who nothing works for them, become homeless, or work in a evil/underground level, drug dealing, etc. My contention is that there is nothing physically ‘wrong’ with the person, just they are in a level that they just can’t get ahead, and in their frustration some damage themselves, or people trying to help using medical science damage these people. When this first was revealed was in 2 levels, which is the divided kingdom of Judah/Israel. If you look at Samuel and Kings, it is written in a enjoyable writing style, very human friendly, this is a upper level. God tests King David to conduct a census - this being a upper level. In Chronicles the writing style is dry and legalistic - very inhuman, King David is tempted by Satan here for the exact same thing. (See 2 Sam 24:1 vs 1 Ch 21:1). Legalism is of Satan and it paralyzed us, just look at insurance and fear of lawsuits prevents us from helping others or even just living our lives. Daniel mentions 4 kingdoms in multiple terms, gold, silver, iron, clay/iron, is one such set, each one progressively lower and moving from glorious to bondage and dirt. The Gospels are I believe for the 4 kingdoms as viewed in each one. Mathew being the lowest one is the most matter of fact, sort of dry telling, with much doom and gloom. John being the highest one is the most spiritual and most hopeful. Inconsistencies like needing a stick to get Jesus a drink on the cross vs apparently Him being low enough to not need a stick is because of the high difference between the levels. This is also the reason for slight differences in the gospels, each one is 100% true as viewed in that world level. Matth being a tax colloect, which is like a mobster today and John being a fisherman, a enjoyable job God mentions 3 heavens, it would make sense that He could make a multilevel earth. Why were only 3 ‘invited’ to the transfiguration, when Jesus had the Kingdom of God be visible to only Peter James and John? I’m sure He would have liked to show all 12, but only 3 could. This I believe was because these 3 were in the upper kingdom, the rest were on other levels. The Hebrews enslaved in Egypt may not have meant necessarily a physical trip, but lowered to L3 and then L4 where they were oppressed. I believe there is quite a bit more that supports this concept in scriptures, including the meaning of the tower of Babel, Isaiah vs. Jeremiah and others, and what to ‘fall’ in battle really means. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/587 "2009-02-27T15:23:52Z")
Just to add, John being on a upper level, closer to God was feed by God and had his need met by God. His profession is a fisherman, and it seems enjoyable and productive and freeing. His later profession being a ‘fisher of men’ is his role of reaching down to the lower level and pulling people up. Matthew is closet to the satanic level, L4, and as such, just as demons are viewed as consuming people, Mathew’s profession is to feed off of others, him sitting at a tax collectors table seems like oppressive work, confining him to one spot. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/588 "2009-02-27T15:31:50Z")
> [@katannah](#): > > Wind? I said “spirit.” You’re the one who said wind was always the same thing as spirit. Then a book, chapter and verse for ‘spirit’ then. And yes sometimes the word for soul is used which I have already said. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/589 "2009-02-27T17:06:31Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > 4 intersecting worlds. Named Fantasy, Mistake, Fiction, and Parable respectively. I think you are done. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/590 "2009-02-27T17:44:19Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I think you are done. Then if that is the case May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all (2 Cor 13:14) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/591 "2009-02-27T18:06:12Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all (2 Cor 13:14) I’m not one to criticize people for making up their own religion, but I reserve the right to offer artistic critiques if they’re doing it badly. Your story sounds more like Eckankar on acid or Baha’i in a blender than the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, or of The Ring. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/592 "2009-02-27T19:56:24Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Then if that is the case > May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all (2 Cor 13:14) Mass is ended, go forth to love and to serve the Lord. Amen. (crosses oneself) (Sorry-flashbacks) 😉 Seriously, **Kanicbird** , have you ever talked to a minister about your beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/593 "2009-02-27T19:58:31Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’d rather you make the claim God lied, as saying there are mistakes in the Word is really foolishness. Doubting the bible is more foolish than doubting God? ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/594 "2009-02-27T21:24:37Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > …physically sex does this as the 2 souls become (now are in) one flesh. Men keep their souls in their penis? Did not know that. Where do women keep theirs? Are lesbians left out, then? That kind of sucks. And wow. Fuck you right into the ground for this: > [@kanicbird](#): > > The sins of Adam and Eve are very different, Eve was deceived following Satan’s path, Adam knowingly disobeyed created his own path. Big difference. Do you have any idea how insulting this is? (And yes, I do know it’s a common belief.) Do you honestly believe that if Adam hadn’t made his choice (just as Eve made hers), then the human race would all be golden and sin-free? We’d all still be in Eden? God would’ve just said, “It’s OK; we’ll get you another one?” Face it, humanity was doomed the instant Eve bit into the fruit (if you believe in Christianity), and no amount of church doctrine and hand-waving apologists can make it go away. You’re going to have to terms with that some day. Sorry, church paternalism makes me all stabby. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/595 "2009-02-27T23:25:16Z")
So what happens, **Kanicbird** , if a woman is raped? Does that count with all this spiritual gobbeldy-gook? What if a child is conceived through rape, and the woman’s husband adopts him/her? What then? What about abusive parents? Or children who are adopted-are you telling me that their parents don’t care about them or truly “Love” them as much as bio parents could? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/596 "2009-02-27T23:39:25Z")
My Ouija board once told me that my sphincter’s name was Todd. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/597 "2009-02-28T01:41:10Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > Men keep their souls in their penis? Did not know that. Where do women keep theirs? Are lesbians left out, then? That kind of sucks. The soul is the core being of the person, the penis in just a physical way that the man can enter a woman to beget offspring. > [@](#): > > Do you have any idea how insulting this is? (And yes, I do know it’s a common belief.) Do you honestly believe that if Adam hadn’t made his choice (just as Eve made hers), then the human race would all be golden and sin-free? We’d all still be in Eden? God would’ve just said, “It’s OK; we’ll get you another one?” The story of Adam and Eve foreshadows Jesus (bridegroom) and the Church (bride of Christ), the Love of Jesus for mankind and the Love of Adam for Eve. Eve was tempted by Satan and was deceived, she had no way of getting back to Adam, just as we have no way (of ourselves) to get back to God. Adam chose to willingly to be with Eve because he was made to Love Eve so much that he would be willing to die for her, just as Jesus did for us, though Jesus can bring us all back to God, something Adam could not. So Adam didn’t have a choice because of his Love for Eve, just as Jesus didn’t have a choice because of His Love for us. (and btw the sin of Adam was worse and got a bigger sentence then Eve, namely the death sentence.- ‘For dust you are and dust you will return’). The following 2 verses I believe is the basis of all gender based issues: [QUOTE= Genesis 3:22 (New International Version)] 22 And the LORD God said, "The **man** (not the woman) has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever. [/QUOTE] comments in () are mine. [QUOTE=1 Timothy 2:14] And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. [/QUOTE] In Adam willingly disobeying he was creating his own reality, as such has become his own ‘god’. men have been given the power of god 1-to create their own reality (as Adam did), 2- be worshiped, and 3- to enter woman and produce life. Satan and the demons also have these 3 characteristics: 1 the path Eve took was a path (reality) Satan created, 2 - demons can be worshiped 3 - demons can enter human women and have offsrping, called nephilum (gen 6:4) and are also called gods, and God has these 3 characteristics as well 1 - God creates all reality, 2 God entered Mary and created the human Jesus, 3 - the Lord God can and is worshiped. Because only the man is given the knowledge of good and evil, and only the man has become like God is the reason that the woman is to submit to her husband. But as Jesus doesn’t demand we submit to him, it is a willing act on our parts, the woman’s submission should be a free will decision, and both of these based on Love the person feels. He is suppose to be a Christ figure that she can depend on and he can comfort her. It is also the reason why a woman should not be put in a position of authority over a man. The taking of the man’s name gives her full authority of the new family and is the exact same reason we believers get to pray in the name of Jesus, we get His name. I personally didn’t like the gender based differences either at first, and though that they were old and no longer applied, but they are as much true today as they were back then. I did have a really tough time coming to terms with this but men and women are made differently and is it a reflection of the relationship of Jesus and the church and it is a beautiful relationship. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/598 "2009-02-28T01:48:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So what happens, **Kanicbird** , if a woman is raped? Does that count with all this spiritual gobbeldy-gook? > What if a child is conceived through rape, and the woman’s husband adopts him/her? What then? What about abusive parents? > > Or children who are adopted-are you telling me that their parents don’t care about them or truly “Love” them as much as bio parents could? [IMHO] Some rape I believe is part of the deal made before birth for our life path, so it is agreed upon and not spiritually rape and any child would be part of that deal. In our age of planned parenthood, I can tell you that lots of children are not with their true parents and the family unit, the basis of humanity is almost lost. We have a lost generation of children who grow up unloved. But adoptive parents IMHO can be the real ‘begotten’ parents, though they may be incapable of having a biological child. [/IMHO] ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/599 "2009-02-28T01:50:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Seriously, **Kanicbird** , have you ever talked to a minister about your beliefs? As I said earlier I talk to several ministers in my ministry of the Lord Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/600 "2009-02-28T01:53:55Z")
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