# Ouija Boards - I used to think it was bull until...... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528 "2009-02-19T09:46:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/601 "2009-02-28T03:34:15Z")
“Take the collection plate and please don’t shoot me!” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/602 "2009-02-28T03:45:19Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > [IMHO] Some rape I believe is part of the deal made before birth for our life path, so it is agreed upon and not spiritually rape and any child would be part of that deal. > > In our age of planned parenthood, I can tell you that lots of children are not with their true parents and the family unit, the basis of humanity is almost lost. We have a lost generation of children who grow up unloved. > [/IMHO] WTH is this supposed to mean? Does anyone else understand what he’s trying to say? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/603 "2009-02-28T03:49:17Z")
If I may attempt to interpret Part 1- Some women(and presumably some men) make deals with demons before they are born. These deals include hidden clauses and downsides. In some cases, these hidden downsides are rape. But, some rapes happen for other reasons. Part 2- I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/604 "2009-02-28T10:40:03Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > What do these ministers say? Normally they take the insight that God has revealed very well and they thank the Lord. Through me God is opening their eyes to the power of God, and not to their worldly training. One however, who it was revealed is a modern day Pharisee, didn’t like it when I talked to some of the people telling them that they can and should pray on their own and don’t need the minister to reach God (really this was my only message, to pray on their own to Jesus). He tried in the service to discredit me, insult me, and finally ‘excommunicated’ me from his church. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/605 "2009-02-28T10:43:49Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > If I may attempt to interpret > > Part 1- Some women(and presumably some men) make deals with demons before they are born. These deals include hidden clauses and downsides. In some cases, these hidden downsides are rape. But, some rapes happen for other reasons. Correct > [@](#): > > Part 2- I’m not sure. In part of our dealing we have attempted to take control of our reproduction, this has taken the planning of who would be our children and spouses out of God’s hands and let it in the hands of the enemy. They steer our lives to people God never intended us to mate with, and children we were never suppose to have. Forming non-cohesive families that are not loving environments which greatly harm the children who can’t spiritually reach maturity. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/606 "2009-02-28T12:45:42Z")
Man, that’s some scary world your god subjects you to. I’m glad I don’t have to live there; fortunately, there are many, many universes to choose from, and yours only intersects with mine on a messageboard. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/607 "2009-02-28T14:58:08Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Normally they take the insight that God has revealed very well and they thank the Lord. Through me God is opening their eyes to the power of God, and not to their worldly training. > > One however, who it was revealed is a modern day Pharisee, didn’t like it when I talked to some of the people telling them that they can and should pray on their own and don’t need the minister to reach God (really this was my only message, to pray on their own to Jesus). He tried in the service to discredit me, insult me, and finally ‘excommunicated’ me from his church. You don’t have to name the actual location of this particular church-just tell us which sect. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/608 "2009-03-01T00:03:15Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > And wow. Fuck you right into the ground for this: [Mod hat] This is Great Debates. Stop that. [/Mod hat] ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/609 "2009-03-01T00:17:42Z")
Why, oh, why did I just take the time to read these 600 posts? It was entertaining, but in many cases frustrating. As to the OP, when a Ouija board spells something out, it is being manipulated by one or more of the people using it. End of story. Not spiritual, not mysterious, not mystical. > [@lekatt](#): > > That answer, surprisingly, is a good one with just a few tweaks. Elementals are spiritual, meaning you can’t see them. They are not entities, more like fragments of entities. They do love to play and fool anyone that will listen. You’re saying this as if you were talking about something real that has actual characteristics. If any of this was true–any of it at all–then these spirits would be leaving behind actual evidence of their existence. To know that “they love to play,” you’d have to actually interact with them and get in their heads (so to speak). You’re making this stuff up as you go, right? Or are you quoting someone else who made it up and convinced you? > [@wsbenge](#): > > I watched Freshmen in college dial up random numbers, and say some of the most outrageous things. I think these boards can be quite similar. Kids using them as toys don’t have any idea who is on the other side. We do. The kids using them are on the other side. Piece of cake. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@lekatt](#): > > > > Been there. > > In your dreams. You’ve summed it up beautifully here, **Czar**. I dreamed about giant jackalopes once, but that doesn’t mean they exist. **Lekatt** is once again drinking his own Kool-Aid. > [@lekatt](#): > > Reading a lot of near death experiences will help. Help with _what_? How does reading about stuff that other people hallucinated, dreamed, or made up going to help me with anything? > [@RaftPeople](#): > > > [@lekatt](#): > > > > The spirit world has no lottery, no gambling, no booze, no drugs, no sex… > > The spirit world is in Utah? Utah has sex. Where do you think little Mormons come from? > [@kanicbird](#): > > IMHO very sadly many people have seen the spiritual, have totally normal functioning minds but were made mentally ill by people trying to convince that they are mentally ill. You’re missing the point, **kanicbird**. If you see something that isn’t there, that’s called hallucinating. If you’re hallucinating, then you’re either sick (physically or mentally) or under the influence of some mind-altering substance. > [@kanicbird](#): > > At one time I served demons, I repented of that and now serve the Lord Jesus. It doesn’t change what I have done in my past, nor am I barred of talking about it. > [@martin2588](#): > > Since the original posting we have contacted a professor at Liverpool University UK. At his initial request we performed the same “trick” as last week and with his students viewing, researching and partaking to try and reduce “trickery” we got the same results. Unless I missed it somewhere, you’ve carefully avoided responding to the people who asked for the name of this professor. Was your experiment recorded? What does this professor teach? Was proper scientific method applied? Can you provide _any_ evidence that you’re not just messing with us? > [@kanicbird](#): > > This video I first saw **after** I saw the demons and one Holy Angel. What I saw was so very close to what is represented in the video. The demons are the disfigured spirits, the ones I saw were just a bit ‘greener’ in color, but other then that matched exactly. The holy angel was also pretty much a exact match. > > They do have names, they tried to get me to go deeper into the occult, which lead to astral projection, I stopped at using it to a/effect other people, actually I believe God prevented me, as I remember I was about to touch a person I knew and I just stopped and knew I should not. I don’t know what would have happened if I did. Do you really believe this stuff? I know, that’s a stupid question. If you believe it, you’ll say “yes,” and if you don’t believe it, you’ll say “yes,” because you won’t want to admit to lying. > [@appleciders](#): > > Has anyone else here ever intentionally manipulated a ouija board session? Of course. [quote=“kanicbird, post:574, topic:486528”] > [@](#): > > God has me working with a lot of thrown away children lately If you tell the kids the kind of things you’ve talked about in this thread, then that is downright scary. You realize you could screw them up badly, right? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/610 "2009-03-01T11:18:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You don’t have to name the actual location of this particular church-just tell us which sect. If you are referring to the one that excommunicated me, reformed church of America which is part of dutch reformed. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/611 "2009-03-01T11:33:58Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > You’re missing the point, **kanicbird**. If you see something that isn’t there, that’s called hallucinating. If you’re hallucinating, then you’re either sick (physically or mentally) or under the influence of some mind-altering substance. I’m not talking about things that are not there, I’m talking about things you can’t see - big difference. It would be foolish, and a bit self centered, and ‘holier then thou’ to say something doesn’t exist just because you never saw it, and dangerous and damaging for you to tell someone that something that is real and they can see that it doesn’t exist. Sorry but science is not an authority on reality either, it has proven itself time and time again inadequate to place any such faith in. > [@](#): > > Do you really believe this stuff? > > I know, that’s a stupid question. If you believe it, you’ll say “yes,” and if you don’t believe it, you’ll say “yes,” because you won’t want to admit to lying. Well you might think it’s a silly question but I absolutely know it’s true and it as real, actually ‘realer’ then they computer you use to type this on. Of course. > [@kanicbird](#): > > If you tell the kids the kind of things you’ve talked about in this thread, then that is downright scary. You realize you could screw them up badly, right? Why would you assume I tell kids these things, do yo teach kindergartners about condom use or evolution? Or do you wait to the appropriate age to teach your downright scary stuff to them to screw them up. IMHO you are doing far more damage then I am by saying Love and hug the children. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/612 "2009-03-01T16:27:11Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’m not talking about things that are not there, I’m talking about things you can’t see - big difference. It would be foolish, and a bit self centered, and ‘holier then thou’ to say something doesn’t exist just because you never saw it, and dangerous and damaging for you to tell someone that something that is real and they can see that it doesn’t exist. Sorry but science is not an authority on reality either, it has proven itself time and time again inadequate to place any such faith in. You’re talking about things that exist in your hallucinations, your dreams, and your visions. Somehow, of all the billions of people that have lived in our world, these demons and spirits have always managed to avoid appearing to anyone who understands the scientific method, they’ve never left solid evidence of their existence. They’re called “phantoms” for a reason: they exist only in the imaginations of believers. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Why would you assume I tell kids these things, do yo teach kindergartners about condom use or evolution? I said “if.” I was not assuming that you told them anything. > [@kanicbird](#): > > IMHO you are doing far more damage then I am by saying Love and hug the children. You have absolutely no clue what I tell children, and therefore absolutely no basis for assuming I’m doing damage to them. I will tell you that I don’t tell them stories about ghost, demons, devils, witches and such without explaining beforehand that they’re just stories. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/613 "2009-03-01T19:21:19Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > If you are referring to the one that excommunicated me, reformed church of America which is part of dutch reformed. I am pretty sure that Reformed Church doctrine is explicit that people can pray to God/Jesus directly without clerical intermediacy. I wonder if the reason for your expulsion was more in the way you communicated this or in your sharing of your extra-Biblical revelations. ---
**Author:** ![dinoboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dinoboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dinoboy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/614 "2009-03-01T19:37:16Z")
So, I begin reading this interesting thread on **Ouija boards** and I just skipped ahead a bit… ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/615 "2009-03-01T20:51:06Z")
> [@dinoboy](#): > > So, I begin reading this interesting thread on **Ouija boards** and I just skipped ahead a bit… Oh, it got WAY more interesting after the Ouija board part was exhausted. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/616 "2009-03-01T21:09:42Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Why, oh, why did I just take the time to read these 600 posts? It was entertaining, but in many cases frustrating. > > As to the OP, when a Ouija board spells something out, it is being manipulated by one or more of the people using it. End of story. Not spiritual, not mysterious, not mystical. > > You’re saying this as if you were talking about something real that has actual characteristics. If any of this was true–any of it at all–then these spirits would be leaving behind actual evidence of their existence. To know that “they love to play,” you’d have to actually interact with them and get in their heads (so to speak). You’re making this stuff up as you go, right? Or are you quoting someone else who made it up and convinced you? > > We do. The kids using them are on the other side. Piece of cake. You answer so many at once how can you consider. Let me give you an experiment. Get a pendulum. It can be made with a stiff string and a weigth at the bottom. But a real one works better. Now hold the string and let the weight swing freely. Try really hard to keep the weight still by holding your hand and fingers very still. You can put your elbow on a table. Now ask a question with a yes or no answer that answers yes. Watch the pendulum swing and note the direction, then do the same for a question with a no answer. Do not try to influence the pendulum in any way, keep hand and fingers still. Then be patient with it and tell me what happened. Remember not to move your hand with the swing of the pendulum remain still. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/617 "2009-03-01T21:24:48Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Let me give you an experiment. Get a pendulum. It can be made with a stiff string and a weigth at the bottom. But a real one works better. Now hold the string and let the weight swing freely. Try really hard to keep the weight still by holding your hand and fingers very still. You can put your elbow on a table. Now ask a question with a yes or no answer that answers yes. Watch the pendulum swing and note the direction, then do the same for a question with a no answer. Do not try to influence the pendulum in any way, keep hand and fingers still. Then be patient with it and tell me what happened. Remember not to move your hand with the swing of the pendulum remain still. Yep, I’ve played that game. Didn’t work at all for me, although I watched other people do it. They never got a single piece of actual useful information. Can you answer these questions for me, **lekatt**? I’d really like to know: 1. If these things (pendulums, ouija boards, and so on) worked, then why can’t people use them for useful stuff, like solving crimes, finding buried treasure, or deciding what stocks to invest in? Heck, I’d buy a ouija board in a second if it would help me fix computer problems. 2. Why has none of this stuff ever been demonstrated in a lab? The test is really easy (determine random stuff) and people have offered big money for anyone who can do it. Yet for some reason, nobody ever seems to be able to reproduce the results under controlled conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/618 "2009-03-01T21:26:40Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You answer so many at once how can you consider. > > Let me give you an experiment. Get a pendulum. It can be made with a stiff string and a weigth at the bottom. But a real one works better. Now hold the string and let the weight swing freely. Try really hard to keep the weight still by holding your hand and fingers very still. You can put your elbow on a table. Now ask a question with a yes or no answer that answers yes. Watch the pendulum swing and note the direction, then do the same for a question with a no answer. Do not try to influence the pendulum in any way, keep hand and fingers still. Then be patient with it and tell me what happened. Remember not to move your hand with the swing of the pendulum remain still. But you ARE impacting the pendulum. You even stated it in your experiment–‘try really hard to keep the weight still by holding your hand and fingers very still’. No matter how you try, you will influence the pendulum. How can you not? This is what people (in my opinion) have been trying to get you to understand–this isn’t a scientific experiment. It has too many variables that can be influenced, even subconsciously. A good experiment would take out those other variables that can be explained by other influences. The studies you cite don’t do that. Why don’t you try the same thing by placing the pendulum on a fixed base where NO human interactions can influence it. This still isn’t a good solution–but it at least in more in the right direction. But at least you can then take the human (even subconscious) interactions as a cause. Now if you took it further and put in into a scientific environment with a control–now you are talking. Then you would have some data that could be compared and discussed. Until then all you have is a biased impression of something that has multiple explanations, and most people aren’t going to go immediately to the paranormal for the answer when it could be any number of satisfactory explanations resulting from simple human influence. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/619 "2009-03-01T22:42:20Z")
> [@Hakuna\_Matata](#): > > But you ARE impacting the pendulum. You even stated it in your experiment–‘try really hard to keep the weight still by holding your hand and fingers very still’. No matter how you try, you will influence the pendulum. How can you not? > > This is what people (in my opinion) have been trying to get you to understand–this isn’t a scientific experiment. It has too many variables that can be influenced, even subconsciously. A good experiment would take out those other variables that can be explained by other influences. The studies you cite don’t do that. > > Why don’t you try the same thing by placing the pendulum on a fixed base where NO human interactions can influence it. This still isn’t a good solution–but it at least in more in the right direction. But at least you can then take the human (even subconscious) interactions as a cause. > > Now if you took it further and put in into a scientific environment with a control–now you are talking. Then you would have some data that could be compared and discussed. > > Until then all you have is a biased impression of something that has multiple explanations, and most people aren’t going to go immediately to the paranormal for the answer when it could be any number of satisfactory explanations resulting from simple human influence. Didn’t intend it to be so complicated, no need to know why. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/620 "2009-03-01T22:44:55Z")
> [@Hakuna\_Matata](#): > > But you ARE impacting the pendulum. You even stated it in your experiment–‘try really hard to keep the weight still by holding your hand and fingers very still’. No matter how you try, you will influence the pendulum. How can you not? > > This is what people (in my opinion) have been trying to get you to understand–this isn’t a scientific experiment. It has too many variables that can be influenced, even subconsciously. A good experiment would take out those other variables that can be explained by other influences. The studies you cite don’t do that. > > Why don’t you try the same thing by placing the pendulum on a fixed base where NO human interactions can influence it. This still isn’t a good solution–but it at least in more in the right direction. But at least you can then take the human (even subconscious) interactions as a cause. > > Now if you took it further and put in into a scientific environment with a control–now you are talking. Then you would have some data that could be compared and discussed. > > Until then all you have is a biased impression of something that has multiple explanations, and most people aren’t going to go immediately to the paranormal for the answer when it could be any number of satisfactory explanations resulting from simple human influence. No one said it was science. Science is not everything, at least not to me. Is it valuable, does it help anyone? That is for the user to determine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528.md?page=32)