# Ouija Boards - I used to think it was bull until...... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528 "2009-02-19T09:46:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/161 "2009-02-19T21:41:07Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I haven’t used the board in years, maybe 15 years, I learned I don’t need them. I know you won’t believe it, but the board is only graphics. It is possible to know what it will say before it says it, and when you can do that you don’t need the board anymore. > > I learned spiritual truths on how to live in the physical and what can be expected upon returnig to the spiritual. This explains more than you can possibly know… ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/162 "2009-02-19T21:43:09Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > OK, look; can they come up with any information which has a commercial value? > > “Madoff is running a Ponzi; get out now.” > > “There is an abandoned wreck with 6 tons of Spanish gold at the following co-ordinates.” > > “John Edwards is having an affair with Rielle Hunter. Call the Enquirer now.” No, they won’t, the interest in money, and other things of the physical are just not pertinent to what spirits do. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/163 "2009-02-19T21:44:18Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > This explains more than you can possibly know… I am glad it did. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/164 "2009-02-19T21:45:18Z")
I think Cecil’s answer is quite good. But consider the implications. Clearly, the people who operate the board without intent to deceive are not prearranging their coordinated actions, that would be pretty hard to do, and I’ve seen it move at lightning speed. OK, fine, so its operating from a level beneath conscious thought, no mumbo-jumbo involved. I submit that that, in and of itself, is darned interesting. And it is enough for me that something be interesting, whether or not I can explain it. [Scientology church lady] Or, could it be…thetan?! [/SCL] ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/165 "2009-02-19T21:45:47Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > What should happen when this type of idiocy is posted. > > 1st post: Silly Question > > 2nd post: [How does a Ouija board work? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1798/how-does-a-ouija-board-work) > > Aaaaaand… lock it. > > I’m willing to bet that most of our Dopers read most if not all of Cecil’s columns > over the years, paper or book format. Our OPer has not. > > The answer is above, Ouija lovers. > > Next we’ll debate if water really is H2O. > > “Excuse me while I grind my teeth.” Interestingly, the OP’s stated scenario explicitly accounts for that article’s argument that it’s the ideomotor effect: the article suggests that if you use a blindfold, the spirits should still function so that proves it’s not the spirits; in the OP’s tale, the spirits’ vision was (inexplicably) dependent on the vision of one of the dudes. Which to us means that he was the plant, but to the OP means that the linked article’s argument is already accounted for by the spirits and thus proves nothing. So perhaps the OP _has_ read the article after all. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/166 "2009-02-19T21:49:09Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Interestingly, the OP’s stated scenario explicitly accounts for that article’s argument that it’s the ideomotor effect: the article suggests that if you use a blindfold, the spirits should still function so that proves it’s not the spirits; in the OP’s tale, the spirits’ vision was (inexplicably) dependent on the vision of one of the dudes. Which to us means that he was the plant, but to the OP means that the linked article’s argument is already accounted for by the spirits and thus proves nothing. > > So perhaps the OP _has_ read the article after all. And the first line of the article’s response also states “it is a game.” So, IMO, the OPer did not read it. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/167 "2009-02-19T21:58:01Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > And the first line of the article’s response also states “it is a game.” > So, IMO, the OPer did not read it. Ah, but is it a game _powered by spooOOooOOooky magic?_ The OP mentions being aware of the ideomotor effect and conducting an experiment designed to disprove it, and based on the results is not convinced the ideomotor effect is in play. So, the article, if he has or had read it, would not convince him of anything (nor should it, being just an argument from authority at that point). ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/168 "2009-02-19T22:12:24Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It is true that sometimes a seer can look into the future and see some event coming in your life. But that could change in an instant, you may move, leave town. If the seer is unable to take into account the things that might change the upcoming event, then they aren’t actually looking into the future; they’re basically just reading things off a calendar. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/169 "2009-02-19T22:13:42Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Some people do have direct channels to their departed loved ones. But like broadband and Verizon, there are procedures to follow and a price to pay for such communication. Wait, there are roaming charges with Ouija? Awwww! So much for dropping my landline AND my cell. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/170 "2009-02-19T22:17:03Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Ah, but is it a game _powered by spooOOooOOooky magic?_ The OP mentions being aware of the ideomotor effect and conducting an experiment designed to disprove it, and based on the results is not convinced the ideomotor effect is in play. So, the article, if he has or had read it, would not convince him of anything (nor should it, being just an argument from authority at that point). (Ooof… brain freeze.) True, they DID mention ideomotor effect in the OP. But what about the creators of the board mentioned? Knowing that “It was invented and marketed by American businessmen hoping to make a buck” wouldn’t lead me to think “These businessmen accidentally found a gateway to the spirit world!!!” It would lead me to remember all the snake oil salesmen selling magic tonic that makes hair grow, finds a true love for you and plows my fields. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/171 "2009-02-19T22:24:59Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > (Ooof… brain freeze.) > > True, they DID mention ideomotor effect in the OP. But what about the creators > of the board mentioned? Knowing that “It was invented and marketed by American businessmen hoping to make a buck” wouldn’t lead me to think “These businessmen > accidentally found a gateway to the spirit world!!!” It would lead me to remember > all the snake oil salesmen selling magic tonic that makes hair grow, finds a true love for you and plows my fields. Meh, the businessmen were just mimicing and merging the handmade tools already in use by spiritualists. The fact that a board game company is pressing your tools for you doesn’t mean the tools don’t work, any more than the chess sets they pump out are any less effective as a chess-playing tool than the handmade chess sets that preceded them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/172 "2009-02-19T22:35:35Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > No, they won’t, the interest in money, and other things of the physical are just not pertinent to what spirits do. Is there anything that interests them which could also interest us? ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/173 "2009-02-19T23:28:07Z")
> [@martin2588](#): > > One person left the table and wrote or drew 5 or 6 things on a piece of paper in another room of the house. We then asked the board. What is the first word or picture and so on so forth. The board got every single one correct. We repeated this 4 or 5 times (roughly 25 pictures or words 100% correct) > > There was no verbal or signed communication between the person with the paper and those on the board, in fact they couldnt see each other. The strange thing was when we said whats on the paper, the glass went still for a few seconds, as if it was was there was actually going to have a look? Without making a judgement as to whether or not what you experienced was supernatural, there is a very simple technique well within the realms of the mundane called “[billet reading](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billet_reading)” or “one ahead reading” that is employed by magicians and mentalists that would explain quite handily this particular phenomenon. There was more than likely a shill in your midst. It was probably your friend Paul… ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/174 "2009-02-19T23:29:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is there anything that interests them which could also interest us? Boobies? ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/175 "2009-02-20T00:11:04Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Hmm, if a “Oui-ja” board contacts the devil, wouldn’t a “Non-nein” board contact God? That might explain why **Vinyl Turnip** ’s board hasn’t told him anything; God never does. But I bet the glass moves in mysterious ways. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/176 "2009-02-20T00:19:43Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I haven’t used the board in years, maybe 15 years, I learned I don’t need them. I know you won’t believe it, but the board is only graphics. It is possible to know what it will say before it says it, and when you can do that you don’t need the board anymore. So, you’re kind of like Neo now and can see the Matrix without a terminal? Whoa. (And you never, if even just for a minute, suspected that your knowing the answers of the ouija board might merely mean that in fact you’re the one giving them?) ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/177 "2009-02-20T00:28:13Z")
> [@martin2588](#): > > **Ouija Boards - I used to think it was bull until…** > > I need your help, Please do not just say, they are fake etc, without providing fact as what has happended cannot be explained or can it? The above message is brought to you by **Parker Brothers** , maker of Ouija Board and other fine games. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/178 "2009-02-20T01:01:59Z")
I’d love to see **lekatt** and **kanicbird** have a cagematch, since it seems they both claim to know so much (outside of what their bible, aka WORD OF GOD, has to say) about the afterlife/spiritual realm, and they both seem to contradict each other in certain regards. Should I play with a Magic Eight Ball™? Or has the mysterious blue liquid inside been transmogrified by a shaman, who is merely a pawn of Satan? Anyway, **lekatt, kanicbird, and all the others who believe in this nonsense:** Trust me, this faith you claim to have is nothing but an ugly, cancerous, feedback loop. Once you accept it, you can’t get out of it, because the rules of faith are set up in such a way that denial of it strengthens it even further; such denial is just Satan or his minions just trying to trick you out of believing. You have my pity, because you’re doomed to live a life of smoke and mirrors, seeing meaning in empty coincidence, demons hiding in the bushes, extreme paranoia of the mundane things around you and everyone else. You’ll be open to hoaxes and snake oil. You’ll be prone to contrivances of your own, and others like you, as you try to fill the gaps where the tenants of your faith fall short or leave off. You’ll lose the ability of healthy skepticism and trust in science and simple observation. You’ll always be second guessing every choice and action you take. You’ll alienate yourselves. But worst of all, you’ll be making void, empty sacrifices. Some small, and some quite large and life changing. You live in a prison of your own construction, and it’s dark, damp, and cold in there. For what? I know, you think all this earthly stuff temporary, and the reward will come in the afterlife, but ask yourself… have you been conned? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/179 "2009-02-20T01:13:53Z")
> [@LilShieste](#): > > If the seer is unable to take into account the things that might change the upcoming event, then they aren’t actually looking into the future; they’re basically just reading things off a calendar. In the spirit world events happen simultaneously. So there is no past, future, time, and space, and no calendar. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528/180 "2009-02-20T01:15:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is there anything that interests them which could also interest us? They are interested in spiritual growth, and I am also interested in spiritual growth. Can’t say about others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ouija-boards-i-used-to-think-it-was-bull-until/486528.md?page=10)