# Our government is planning to use nukes? You have to be \*&@#$ kidding me! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 9, 2006, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937 "2006-04-09T08:12:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/121 "2006-04-10T19:06:03Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > So yes, your confidence in the teensiness of nukes does smack of insanity, or perhaps lack of knowledge. Exactly where did I use that phrase? I don’t dispute that they’re devastatingly powerful. It’s just a question of perception. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/122 "2006-04-10T19:11:55Z")
Fuck my coding. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/123 "2006-04-10T19:12:56Z")
> [@Xploder](#): > > …I think you were referring to the blast and radiation effects chart which only indicated what would be the effect on the crew if fired to close to them. No, I got that part. The problem was at those ranges you couldn’t count on accuracy, and you needed accurate intel from forward observers. The only way to use it with effect would have been to fire off a salvo and create a hot zone, [ > [@](#): > > …Small teams of the Atomic Battle Group…would be stationed every few kilometers to guard against Soviet attack, using the power of their nuclear artillery shells to kill or incapacitate advancing troop formations and irradiate the area so that it was uninhabitable for up to 48 hours, long enough to mobilize NATO forces… ]([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy\_Crockett\_(nuclear\_device)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_%28nuclear_device%29))Having to wait till the Twhatever tanks were within 2 miles don’t sound like fun either! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/124 "2006-04-10T19:13:08Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Exactly where did I use that phrase? I don’t dispute that they’re devastatingly powerful. It’s just a question of perception. Sorry, I misrepresented you. You’re not diminishing nukes - it’s your exaggeration of the enormity of conventional explosives that I disagree with, in the context of nukes. > [@Quartz](#): > > Why not? Nukes are not much different from other bombs, just more powerful. Would it be OK if we used a MOAB, a Grasscutter, or a Grand Slam? Why? Hiroshima, a very small A-bomb, was more than a thousand times more powerful than a Grand Slam. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/125 "2006-04-10T19:32:49Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > No, I got that part. The problem was at those ranges you couldn’t count on accuracy, and you needed accurate intel from forward observers. > The only way to use it with effect would have been to fire off a salvo and create a hot zone, > [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy\_Crockett\_%28nuclear\_device%29]Having to wait till the Twhatever tanks were within 2 miles don’t sound like fun either! > CMC fnord! I understand but when you said: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by crowmanyclouds > I thought I remembered the BIG problem with the Davy Crockett, go about halfway down the page, you couldn’t fire the damn thing and not be in the effect range of the warhead! > > We had to kill the troops in order to save them. You didn’t say anything about accuracy you just said that you could not fire it without being in the effect zone. Which, of course, led to my post. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/126 "2006-04-10T19:36:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Iran could block the Strait if it wanted to, but only with active naval and air methods, not passively, and not for long. Who’s going to drive the second tanker through, after they take one out? Nobody with insurance for the voyage, that’s for sure. Tankers go through there at the rate of about 16 per day, 8 carrying 2 million barrels of oil each, and 8 more going in to fill up. Stop them for 10 days, and you’ve got everyone’s attention. Iran’s had [plans and capabilities](http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/facility/abu-musa.htm) to do just that for years. They wouldn’t take out one carrier – they’d take out six or eight. Or 12. Looking at [these](http://www.dataxinfo.com/hormuz/icons/sat2b.jpg) [photos](http://www.dataxinfo.com/hormuz/icons/sat29b.jpg), it’s apparent that navigating the strait is not done on autopilot – the four-mile channel is not a straight shot. I agree, the author I quoted overstated the ease of closing the strait of Hormuz. That’s not to say it can’t be done. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/127 "2006-04-10T19:47:10Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] It’s OK for us to have them - and use them - but we can’t allow brown foreign heathens to have any. QUOTE] The color of their skin has nothing to do with it. I have severe issues with Iran gaining nuclear capability because the religious fanatics will promptly start building nuclear bombs. That way, instead of just blowing themselves and a busload of kids up, they can take themselves and downtown New York out. That’ll sure make old Allah grin like a Cheshire cat, won’t it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/128 "2006-04-10T20:04:05Z")
I should like to commend friend **Clothahump** for a cogent and perceptive argument. If he should happen to make one, will someone let me know? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/129 "2006-04-10T20:11:38Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The color of their skin has nothing to do with it. This is America, and these are Republicans; I guarantee race is a factor. > [@Clothahump](#): > > I have severe issues with Iran gaining nuclear capability because the religious fanatics will promptly start building nuclear bombs. That way, instead of just blowing themselves and a busload of kids up, they can take themselves and downtown New York out. That’ll sure make old Allah grin like a Cheshire cat, won’t it? And that’s somehow worse that Bush making Jesus grin by nuking Iran ? Assuming that the Iranian government would let a nuke into a terrorists hands - or _anyones_ hands but their own - which I consider to be completely implausible. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/130 "2006-04-10T20:12:09Z")
What, “we gotta nuke them before they nuke us” isn’t cogent? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/131 "2006-04-10T20:18:33Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I have severe issues with Iran gaining nuclear capability because the religious fanatics will promptly start building nuclear bombs. That way, instead of just blowing themselves and a busload of kids up, they can take themselves and downtown New York out. Three and a half years ago, that’s what all the panickers were saying about Saddam Hussein too. Although I recognize the genuine dangers of having Iran (especially under its present government) as a nuclear power, I am more firmly convinced than ever that we won’t do ourselves or anyone else in the world any good by working ourselves into a hysterical panic again over possible future scenarios. Especially not with the bunch of world-champion hysterical panickers that we’ve currently got in office. It’s not just about the possibility of jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. These bozos are perfectly capable of jumping out of a plate of lukewarm soup into an active blast furnace and maintaining with a straight face that it was a smart move “based on the best information available at the time”. Trusting their judgement is simply not warranted any more, if it ever was. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/132 "2006-04-10T20:20:13Z")
I will take the right flank on one thing **Der Trihs** said - the ironic “It’s OK for us to have them (and use them) but…” We have them. There’s not much we can do about that. Since WWII, we have successfully not used them. So the U.S. _is_ a safer bet to not use nuclear weapons (from a ‘better the devil you know…’ standpoint) than any new country trying to acquire nukes, whether it be Iran, Pakistan, or the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg. I _hope_ that our current administration is still sane enough to not consider using nukes. If not, my argument falls apart. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/133 "2006-04-10T20:49:37Z")
bush has [backed off military options](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12252300/) ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/134 "2006-04-10T20:58:16Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Since WWII, we have successfully not used them. According to [here](http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Tests/index.html) > [@](#): > > Between 16 July 1945 and 23 September 1992 the United States of America conducted (by official count) 1054 nuclear tests, and two nuclear attacks. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/135 "2006-04-10T21:06:38Z")
I assume they meant “used them as a military tactic/against some other entity” vs. testing them. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/136 "2006-04-10T21:10:02Z")
> [@wring](#): > > I assume they meant “used them as a military tactic/against some other entity” vs. testing them. The mere possession of nukes is inherently a military tactic. That’s why “we” don’t want anyone else to have them. They’re a great equalizer. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/137 "2006-04-10T21:46:22Z")
> [@wring](#): > > bush has [backed off military options](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12252300/) Bush on 06/04/2002: > [@](#): > > “As I said in my speech,” Bush told the reporter, "we (will) use all the tools at our disposal to deal with these nations that hate America and hate our freedoms. > > “And one option, of course, is the military option,” he said. “But as we’ve said repeatedly, I have no plans on my desk at this point in time. But, nevertheless, these nations that I have named need to take America seriously. When it comes to defending our freedoms, they need to be worried about how we defend our freedom. We’re very serious about this, and we expect them to change their behavior.” A month and a half later came the Downing Street memo. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/138 "2006-04-10T21:52:56Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Bush on 06/04/2002: And that was 2-3 months after he said, “Fuck Saddam, we’re taking him out.” ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/139 "2006-04-11T00:43:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And that was 2-3 months after he said, “Fuck Saddam, we’re taking him out.” Well SOMEBODY had to say it… cite? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937/140 "2006-04-11T01:30:10Z")
> [@Xploder](#): > > Well SOMEBODY had to say it… [Amazing what one click with Google will do for you.](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2835.htm) -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-government-is-planning-to-use-nukes-you-have-to-be-kidding-me/351937.md?page=8)