# "Our Kids!" (Ft. Hood Shootings - ed. title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 7, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680 "2009-11-07T03:18:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/41 "2009-11-08T20:57:13Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > They’re soldiers, they aren’t children. I find your tone actually insulting to these brave **men and women**. We have an all volunteer military and it is the action of an adult to go to war for their country, not that of a child. Again, sorry if I have offended, and yes, they _are_ brave, but they are still our children (“kids”) and I meant absolutely _no_ disrespect or offense to anyone! Not now, not _EVER_! How about we “poll” them, then, **Martin Hyde**? How do you think they would answer??? I believe you’re just being “contrary” because of where the OP wound up (GD), yes? # Relax and think about it: They are our children, no matter what their ages are, and they do NOT deserve to die in a war which cannot be won! To the mods: I **TRY** my damndest to stay of here and the Pit, but sometimes I slip. Feel free to delete my posts if they don’t make sense and no hurt feelings! Q Q ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/42 "2009-11-08T21:19:54Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > Again, sorry if I have offended, and yes, they _are_ brave, but they are still our children (“kids”) and I meant absolutely _no_ disrespect or offense to anyone! Do you consider firefighters to be children? Police officers? Search and Rescue workers? EVERYONE is someone’s child. When you reach adulthood, you have the right to be treated as a full citizen, responsible for your own actions and choices. Referring to the military as ‘children’ is little more than a blatant appeal to emotion. It’s also demeaning to them. They are adults who made their own choices for their own reasons, and that should be respected. BTW, my best friend joined the Canadian forces last year. He’s 44 years old. He volunteered specifically to go to Afghanistan. I doubt it he would enjoy being considered one of our country’s ‘kids’. He’s an officer in the military of my country, and deserves respect, not infantilization. And that would be true if he was 24 instead of 44. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/43 "2009-11-08T21:21:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “Soldier” usually refers to someone in the Army. I assume the OP wants all military personnel out of Afghanistan, so “Troops” or “Military” would be better. Good point. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/44 "2009-11-08T21:27:07Z")
9-11 was planned in Falls Church Va., Paris, France, Sarasota, Fla., and Hamburg, Germany. It was carried out by Saudis with Saudi financing. There is some footage of people on monkeybars ,training to be soldiers in Afghanistan. They were not the same group of people. Afghanistan war is a huge waste of blood and treasure and it does not make us safer from terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/45 "2009-11-08T21:29:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > , then I believe there will be more terrorist attacks in the U.S. No **Johnny**! :eek: **Not** if we concentrate our _forces_, my friend!🙂 We have **got** to try!🙂 This bullshit ain’t gettin’ it, mein Freund! This senseless loss of life is stupid! (And I KNOW you know that the word “Bullshit” is not directed at YOU, dear friend! I just want it understood that our sons and daughters (“soldiers” - what - **EVER** ) don’t need to be there fucking up their **LIVES**! Jesus Christ! I **cannot** believe we are disagreeing here because of fucking _semantics_! Q ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/46 "2009-11-08T21:36:58Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Do you consider firefighters to be children? Police officers? Search and Rescue workers? > > EVERYONE is someone’s child. When you reach adulthood, you have the right to be treated as a full citizen, responsible for your own actions and choices. > > Referring to the military as ‘children’ is little more than a blatant appeal to emotion. It’s also demeaning to them. They are adults who made their own choices for their own reasons, and that should be respected. > > BTW, my best friend joined the Canadian forces last year. He’s 44 years old. He volunteered specifically to go to Afghanistan. I doubt it he would enjoy being considered one of our country’s ‘kids’. He’s an officer in the military of my country, and deserves respect, not infantilization. > > And that would be true if he was 24 instead of 44. Thanks, **Sam** , and I _do_ get your “nick” (Welcome Home, Brother!) Again, I am sorry if I offended my fellow Vets. Sure didn’t mean to. Not now, Not **Ever**. ☹ Sorry! Quas’ ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/47 "2009-11-08T22:43:40Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > **a**? > > Of _course_ we can disagree, and I love you dearly as well! > 🙂 > > So? > > Let’s melt it all down, then! > > Unless I’m missing something, you’re saying we cannot MAC-LIFT our troops home, like _in the next few days_, even if it means leaving weapons behind? > > Sorry, everyone! It’s been a while for me, but I think we need to get the fuck outta there and let them suicide-bomb\* themselves \*up - _not_ our sons and daughters. > > Q Correct, we simply couldn’t ‘instantly’ remove them logistically. We can not rotate in enough MAC flights to get them out in a safe manner in what you would probably consider a reasonably short period of time. See, it all comes down to being in a hostile environment. We can start pulling them back to a staging area, but as they get fewer, they will be attacked in transit to the base camp, and the base camp is a lovely concentration of targets. It would be a massive retreat under fire, essentially. Bluntly we can not pull out 40,000 people with the planes we have even if we could sustain a berlin airdrop time schedule without seriously pissing off the natives as we would have to _agressively_ shoot anything that remotely threatens the perimeter. Can you imagine having constant flights of fighter craft, manning of a hard perimeter 7/24 for something on the order of 2 months? You can logistically manage only a certain number of people moving per hour. The russians managed because they could _drive_ out in armored columns. We would be concentrating andmaking a nice target rich environment. Our best bet, forlorn hope though it is, is to make peace in the country. THen we could simply rotate people out and replace them with local constabulary [which is what we were trying to accomplish] I really really wish they would actually LOOK at Japan … we occupied them, gave them a rebuilt infrastructure better than what they had, and left them culturally intact [the Japanese government started westernizing them before ww1, we didn’t do it. All we did was force a democratic government] and religously intact. We really do have no intention of converting them to christianity, just stopping the whole terrorism thing [though I would personally like to see religious law superceeded with democracy and a lack of human rights violations and equal rights for women, but Im funny that way] ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/48 "2009-11-08T22:55:54Z")
But we gotta get 'em out, okay? And you ain’t “funny”!🙂 You’se my\*\* friend\*\*!🙂 (And you ain’t heavy!) You’se mah **Sistah**! [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7HPqi5uVeo) Your Friend Always! Quasi/Bill ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/49 "2009-11-08T23:10:46Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > Thanks, **Sam** , and I _do_ get your “nick” (Welcome Home, Brother!) > > Again, I am sorry if I offended my fellow Vets. > > Sure didn’t mean to. > > Not now, Not **Ever**. > ☹ > Sorry! > > Quas’ I hope I didn’t lead you into thinking I’m a vet. I’m not. I tried to sign up as a pilot in the Canadian Forces, and was turned away for poor vision. But I have had many friends in the forces, and I used to work in a flight school on a military base, and I have the utmost respect for the men and women who have chosen to serve their country in uniform. Also, I think it’s wrong to politicize the shootings at Ft. Hood by tying them to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Hasan is not a victim of post-traumatic stress. He’s never been deployed overseas. He looks to me like yet another crazed loser gunman taking out his frustrations on other people. Had he worked in a college, he might have gone on a rampage and shot students instead of soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/50 "2009-11-08T23:19:49Z")
I am sorry. This is just twisting my head all kindsa ways? How _many_ of you in this thread are **Vets**??? Thanks, Q ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/51 "2009-11-08T23:24:21Z")
I’m not. Dinged my knees in high school. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/52 "2009-11-08T23:55:38Z")
BuI I have seen pics, and you look like you’re geared for battle, “young 'one”! 🙂 Q ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/53 "2009-11-09T00:15:04Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’ve pointed out in the past that Afghanistan has been conquered many, many, many times throughout history. And while the British had repeated rebellions they definitely had subjugated Afghanistan for much of the 19th century; saying the British never conquered Afghanistan is like saying the Romans never conquered Judea–of course they did, it was just tough territory to hold. And the problem is that no-one has really managed to hang onto it for long. Yes, the British subjugated Afghanistan, but that’s not quite the same thing as being able to assimilate it into their Empire and do anything productive with it. The British were largely using Afghanistan as a “Buffer” against the Russians anyway, AIUI. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/54 "2009-11-09T01:05:06Z")
Let this shit _rest_ already! I was just making a **POINT**! Jesus Fucking Christ! God, some of you guys just beat all, ya know?:mad::mad::mad: Q! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/55 "2009-11-09T01:09:50Z")
Perhaps you should try Haiku as a medium. Your posting style sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/56 "2009-11-09T01:24:18Z")
Okay, I will. Sorry, as I said. Q ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/57 "2009-11-09T02:55:04Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > Okay, I will. > > Sorry, as I said. > > Q No-one is attacking you personally, OK **Quasi**? I know it’s a frustrating issue, especially when you feel passionately about it and other people don’t seem to share your passion. If you’re looking for a good, humorous read on the sort of things that have historically happened in Afghanistan to foreign armies, check out George MacDonald Fraser’s book _Flashman_ (sometimes entitled _The Flashman Papers_ or _The Flashman Papers, Vol. I_. They’re very funny but also very educational too (Fraser was a soldier and a journalist-historian who did his research.) ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/58 "2009-11-09T06:09:23Z")
No, sorry. You’re telling me one more life is “worth it”, and I am telling you it isn’t. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/59 "2009-11-09T06:50:09Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > No, sorry. You’re telling me one more life is “worth it”, and I am telling you it isn’t. > > End of story. I’m… not really sure what you’re talking about, I’m afraid. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680/60 "2009-11-09T15:09:03Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Do you consider firefighters to be children? Police officers? Search and Rescue workers? > > EVERYONE is someone’s child. When you reach adulthood, you have the right to be treated as a full citizen, responsible for your own actions and choices. > > Referring to the military as ‘children’ is little more than a blatant appeal to emotion. It’s also demeaning to them. They are adults who made their own choices for their own reasons, and that should be respected. > > BTW, my best friend joined the Canadian forces last year. He’s 44 years old. He volunteered specifically to go to Afghanistan. I doubt it he would enjoy being considered one of our country’s ‘kids’. He’s an officer in the military of my country, and deserves respect, not infantilization. > > And that would be true if he was 24 instead of 44. I agree with this 100%. The reasons for joining the military are as diverse as the military itself, but one thing true across the board is it is a decision that someone who is no longer a child makes. Whether it’s a 44 year old man wanting to serve his country or a 17 year old ready to become an adult. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-kids-ft-hood-shootings-ed-title/516680.md?page=4)