# Our little nest of vipers: Ramira. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 22, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231 "2018-01-22T18:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/61 "2018-01-23T09:36:47Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > As for the charge that **Ramira** is “a belligerent or condescending asshole,” I’ll say only that if that is an offense, there are several Dopers more worthy of Pitting, … I should have expanded on this point. I have never noticed **Ramira** being particularly belligerent or condescending, and certainly never an “asshole.” In fact, in the linked thread it was her detractor(s) who annoyed with their nitpicks about a single word; and **Ramira** quickly apologized. One of this message board’s strengths is that dropouts can “debate” with professors. The professors are usually happy to teach or even learn. But some of the debates can be a test of one’s patience. It is easy to > [@](#): > > con·de·scend > /ˌkändəˈsend/ > verb > show feelings of superiority … when one’s opinions are, in fact, superior 🙂 … but **Ramira** does a fair job of remaining calm and polite. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/62 "2018-01-23T10:07:19Z")
To be fair, she does have a bit of a short fuse. That, along with her borderline incomprehensibility, makes her come across as more aggressive than she intends, IMHO. That said, I like **Ramira**. I don’t always understand what she’s saying, and what I do understand I often don’t agree with, but her heart is in the right place and she has some actual knowledge. Besides, there are few enough Muslims on this board as it is. We can’t afford to lose her. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/63 "2018-01-23T10:54:12Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > **Ramira** brings more value to discussions than any random grouping of 100 average Dopers combined. She does not suffer fools gladly, granted: that trait virtually guarantees a pitting sooner or later. But this Pit thread is weak sauce. This thread is stillborn. The sins it attributes to **Ramira** are not even evident in the linked posts. That’s what TV tropes calls an “informed attribute,” when you tell the audience what to think about someone without in any way showing it to be so. > > When there are gangs of Islamophobes and Arab-haters posting their hate propaganda all over Great Debates, **Ramira** is often the only one to stand up and defend the truth. Dope would be an intellectually and morally poorer place without her. This is one of the most unjustified Pit threads I’ve ever seen. Busting on her for English when it’s her third language is one of the last refuges of a scoundrel. I myself don’t suffer fools gladly when they’re native English speakers mangling their own first language, but \*\*Ramira \*\*handles English a damn sight better than any of you could employ French or Arabic. The example quoted by \*\*septimus \*\*in post 59 above bears witness to how French sentence structure usually does not transfer directly to English very well. I’ve been a professional French to English translator for decades, and I can vouch for how hard sometimes it can be to wrest a French sentence into something that reads like clear English without doing violence to its structure. I don’t enjoy having to read that any more than anyone, but to attack her over that is unjustified. > > To call **Ramira** a troll is the basest calumny. She has never, ever trolled here once that I have seen. Her criticisms, even when harsh, are sincere; even though sometimes they would benefit from more moderation of tone, she does not employ harshness for effect, but out of honest frustration at the belligerent ignorance posted here against her people. 100% this!! As far as **Ramira** having a short fuse. Well, Ramira has a “short” fuse is in the same way women on this board have a “short” fuse when it comes to idiot men making boob jokes in “Bra” threads or women’s bodies threads. I.E. Her so called short fuse is completely justified. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/64 "2018-01-23T11:29:38Z")
I want to say, for the record, that my pitting of Ramira is not in any way related to her ESL, or her being Muslim. She’s erudite and often insightful. I’m not suggesting she needs drubbing off the board. FWIW, I frequently find myself in agreement with her various views. That said, she could benefit from an attitude adjustment with respect to her arrogance and inability to retract an erroneous statement or insensitive remark. Sure, we could all be better at being more humble, or whatever. But this bud’s for Ramira. For whomever asked what the OP title is in reference to, it’s _Fawlty Towers_; Basil calls Sybil, “my little nest of vipers”, for her haranguing and acerbic character. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/65 "2018-01-23T11:30:00Z")
Weak ass pitting. But it’s expected after your performance in the Omnibus Trolls R Us thread. > [@Chimera](#): > > Yeah, I already noticed that and put her on ignore. I had not seen anything really productive out of her. > > But she needs a mod note or warning for that sort of thing outside the pit. Maybe you need to wipe the red off your eyes and actually read what people write? > [@BigT](#): > > [snip] > She is the most **basic form of trol** l, and thus it makes sense people think she’s faking her English affectations. You don’t get the benefit of the doubt when you’re constantly attacking people. > > I honestly can’t remember a post from her that wasn’t her attacking someone. Though, admittedly, I’ve had her on ignore for a while and only see what she says when people quote her. My bold: She’s the opposite… She stands for what she writes. Why do you think she sometimes comes across as she does? 😕 And, you know, she actually posses knowledge of what she writes about, something you, among others, have proved time and again you don’t. I’ll gladly endure a little sharp language for her continued participation. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/66 "2018-01-23T11:54:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > For whomever asked what the OP title is in reference to, it’s _Fawlty Towers_; Basil calls Sybil, “my little nest of vipers”, for her haranguing and acerbic character. In an extremely unfortunate coincidence, that phrase recalls an incident from a few years ago wherein a far right wing Israeli politician (Ayelet Shaked) posted the text of a racist essay which celebrated the deaths of Palestinian children, calling them “little snakes.” I had thought the very phrase “nest of vipers” was used but it was actually “brood” and “snake”. Still, an unfortunate coincidence in the context! Thank you for the clarification! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/67 "2018-01-23T11:59:45Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > In an extremely unfortunate coincidence, that phrase recalls an incident from a few years ago wherein a far right wing Israeli politician (Ayelet Shaked) posted the text of a racist essay which celebrated the deaths of Palestinian children, calling them “little snakes.” > > I had thought the very phrase “nest of vipers” was used but it was actually “brood” and “snake”. > > Still, an unfortunate coincidence in the context! Thank you for the clarification! Wasn’t aware of that. Certainly a reprehensible statement and unfortunate similarity to my OP title, but absolutely not meant in that context. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/68 "2018-01-23T12:40:00Z")
I mildly dislike the poster because she apparently posts a mild form of “Americans all have these wrong stereotypes about the ME!” without seeing the irony of this. I grant that she _might_ be occasionally informative, but that’s where the English skills come in, because I’m not willing to wade through the invective and bad grammar to glean the occasional nugget of wisdom (and even then, given the hyperbole that I know she already uses, how am I to know that that too is not hyperbole?) ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/69 "2018-01-23T12:59:35Z")
The pitting of the **Ramira** is the overdue, but the posts cited are not much of the bad. I’m always amused at the slurs she uses against the viewpoint, especially “the american ideology” and “the ideology”. She selfishly hordes the trove of the economic data, but she is generous in telling me the she is the economist, and of that, I have the appreciation. I cut her the slack being from a once mighty the mercantilist power, now the economic backwater. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/70 "2018-01-23T13:14:48Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I mildly dislike the poster because she apparently posts a mild form of “Americans all have these wrong stereotypes about the ME!” without seeing the irony of this. I grant that she _might_ be occasionally informative, but that’s where the English skills come in, because I’m not willing to wade through the invective and bad grammar to glean the occasional nugget of wisdom (and even then, given the hyperbole that I know she already uses, how am I to know that that too is not hyperbole?) +1. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/71 "2018-01-23T13:39:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Even when she’s obviously [wrong and inarticulate](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20739767&postcount=201) > [@friedo](#): > > I like how the Ramira inserts the unnecessary definite articles in every sentence. I mean _the_ sentence. If I recall correctly, English is not Ramira’s first language. So… you’re criticizing someone for _admitting_ they made a \*mistake \*in word choice when English is not that person’s first language? Wow, that IS a lame pitting! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/72 "2018-01-23T14:26:47Z")
I generally like **Ramira** , and I think her perspective is very valuable to this board, even if she’s caustic and obnoxious some of the time, and though I often disagree with at least a part of her arguments. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/73 "2018-01-23T14:37:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > To be fair, she does have a bit of a short fuse. That, along with her borderline incomprehensibility, makes her come across as more aggressive than she intends, IMHO. > > That said, I like **Ramira**. I don’t always understand what she’s saying, and what I do understand I often don’t agree with, but her heart is in the right place and she has some actual knowledge. Besides, there are few enough Muslims on this board as it is. We can’t afford to lose her. More or less agree with that, except the “short fuse” part is an understatement. Otherwise, I don’t have a problem with her. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/74 "2018-01-23T15:09:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If I recall correctly, English is not Ramira’s first language. > > So… you’re criticizing someone for _admitting_ they made a \*mistake \*in word choice when English is not that person’s first language? > > Wow, that IS a lame pitting! I’m starting to question your English abilities: > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I want to say, for the record, that my pitting of Ramira is not in any way related to her ESL, or her being Muslim. She’s erudite and often insightful. I’m not suggesting she needs drubbing off the board. FWIW, I frequently find myself in agreement with her various views. That said, she could benefit from an attitude adjustment with respect to her arrogance and inability to retract an erroneous statement or insensitive remark. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/75 "2018-01-23T15:25:48Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If I recall correctly, English is not Ramira’s first language. > > So… you’re criticizing someone for _admitting_ they made a \*mistake \*in word choice when English is not that person’s first language? > > Wow, that IS a lame pitting! I keep getting you confused with **BigT** , you wag your finger just like he does. Only **BigT** doesn’t make unbelievable shit up, like reebeW and color blind piloting. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/76 "2018-01-23T15:29:45Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The pitting of the **Ramira** is the overdue, but the posts cited are not much of the bad. > > … I agree with Willy here. She has some political views that make Clothy look human. And she tries to come across as superior when she presents them. Anyway IT"S OFFICIAL. She was **BONE** D for being a **Jerk** , so those posts are bad enough. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/77 "2018-01-23T16:26:00Z")
Ramira’s got Colibritis. Yes, she has a ton of content to add to the board. And she wields it like a total ass by talking down her nose to people. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/78 "2018-01-23T16:36:28Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > The devil is in the details, and minor errors like just that is, in fact, some of the more difficult ones to totally prune from one’s use of a foreign language. > > But I guess that can be hard to understand if one has only one language or, if one does have one, isn’t particularly proficient in it. I’m a US expat living a abroad and have learned the native language where I live, experienced the frustrations, the memorization, and most of all listened to the feedback native speakers gave me when they corrected my errors. In English we put “the” in front of a proper noun when it is plural (The Bahamas) but not if it includes a posessive noun that ends in ‘s’ (St. Paul’s Cathedral.) We use the before any institution or establishment where part of the name is a noun that describes what kind of institution or establishment it is (The French **Republic** , The British Broadcasting **Corporation** ), before the names of rivers, canals, oceans and seas, but not lakes. Before the names of newspapers but not magazines. Etc. When learning an aspect of a new language you usually learn some rules about it like those. They describe the huge majority of cases, and then you have to simply memorize the annoying and inevitable exceptions. This comes with daily use of the language. This aspect of English, for a French-thinking brain learning English, is among the most trivial to master. The Ramira has been posting here for 15 years and received a whole lot of feedback on this particular point. And this is presumably not her primary English school. As I posted in my first post to this thread I find the Ramira to be ascerbic and at times annoyingly arrogant but in many cases it is justified or at least understandable in the context of many of the discussions that interest her. I give the pitting only 1 star at best. But on the point of her “the” affectation, it is either an affectation or willful ignorance, or trolling. Take your pick. Mine is affectation. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/79 "2018-01-23T16:44:02Z")
Anyway, how annoying is the “the” really? She’s usually at least somewhat understandable, right? What some people chose to have a hang up about…:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/80 "2018-01-23T16:46:29Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Anyway, how annoying is the “the” really? She’s usually at least somewhat understandable, right? What some people chose to have a hang up about…:smack: I agree with this. It is just stupid to pretend that it is unintentional on her part but it wouldn’t bother me enough to pit her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231.md?page=5)