# Our little nest of vipers: Ramira. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 22, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231 "2018-01-22T18:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/81 "2018-01-23T16:59:40Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Anyway, how annoying is the “the” really? She’s usually at least somewhat understandable, right? What some people chose to have a hang up about…:smack: That was 1 person. You realize that right? And it wasn’t the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/82 "2018-01-23T17:06:14Z")
I don’t mind the extra “the.” To me, it’s like listening to somebody speak with an ethnic accent. Some Slavic Jews say “mine house” instead of “my house” for instance. It makes the board look more international. Ramira is caustic and fits the “nest of vipers” label, but it’s what makes her interesting. Methinks the OP is a little too overzealous in calling out trolls. Not everybody can be on their best behavior, and being tattled on just makes the situation more grade school. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/83 "2018-01-23T17:19:47Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > That was 1 person. You realize that right? And it wasn’t the OP. What’s your point? It’s been mentioned several times in this thread. I agree with upstairs and some others that she can be caustic and way aggressive at times. That doesn’t invalidate her good points. Or it shouldn’t, but I guess some people have thinner skin than others. And again, troll she is not. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/84 "2018-01-23T17:25:25Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Ramira is caustic and fits the “nest of vipers” label, but it’s what makes her interesting. Methinks the OP is a little too overzealous in calling out trolls. Not everybody can be on their best behavior, and being tattled on just makes the situation more grade school. OP didn’t call her a troll. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/85 "2018-01-23T17:26:56Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > What’s your point? It’s been mentioned several times in this thread. > > I agree with upstairs and some others that she can be caustic and way aggressive at times. That doesn’t invalidate her good points. Or it shouldn’t, but I guess some people have thinner skin than others. > > And again, troll she is not. Good. Glad we agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/86 "2018-01-23T17:27:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > OP didn’t call her a troll. Just sayin’. Others have. Some have also called for warnings. A comment doesn’t necessarily have to be directed at the OP. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/87 "2018-01-23T17:28:22Z")
Aside - I’m curious if reading for comprehension, like cursive writing, is becoming a lost art. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/88 "2018-01-23T18:00:15Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > +3 > > I’ve actually butted heads with her on multiple occasions but always enjoyed our discussions and found her commentary and perspective interesting and memorable. And let’s face it, most of us are on here when bored at work or bored at home and looking for some mental stimulation. > > And yeah, she can be arrogant but she clearly knows what she’s talking about and I find that far more tolerable than people who are completely arrogant when discussing things they clearly know little about or have only the most superficial understandings of. > > As for people complaining about her affectations and being “inarticulate”, come on, English obviously isn’t her primary language which sometimes makes what she says a bit confusing. My take as well. We’ve argued a few times - I’ve been on the receiving end of some anger - we certainly don’t agree on many things (particularly on the Arab/Israeli situation) - but she knows her stuff, no error. I may not agree with what she says, but I often learn something from it. I always found her English comprehensible. Her only real issue is a tendency to get angry, and post while angry. That’s an issue I sympathize with. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/89 "2018-01-23T18:12:19Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > _I cannot support this Pitting._ **Ramira** is generally well-informed, more knowledgeable about economics than most Dopers who post on the topic, and has a better grasp of American or Israeli misbehavior than most Americans or Israelis. She offers a good counter-point to apologists for Israel, which SDMB is beset with from both the left and the right. > > She often takes a one-sided view, exaggerating her side, while diminishing the valid points of her “opposition.” But don’t almost all of us do that? Anyway, that’s an appropriate stance in a forum like this, to make a strong case and let the reader use her arguments to fine-tune his own opinions. > [@Johanna](#): > > **Ramira** brings more value to discussions than any random grouping of 100 average Dopers combined. She does not suffer fools gladly, granted: that trait virtually guarantees a pitting sooner or later. But this Pit thread is weak sauce. This thread is stillborn. The sins it attributes to **Ramira** are not even evident in the linked posts. That’s what TV tropes calls an “informed attribute,” when you tell the audience what to think about someone without in any way showing it to be so. > > When there are gangs of Islamophobes and Arab-haters posting their hate propaganda all over Great Debates, **Ramira** is often the only one to stand up and defend the truth. Dope would be an intellectually and morally poorer place without her. This is one of the most unjustified Pit threads I’ve ever seen. Thanks to the two posters above for eloquently expressing what I feel. I will add that I have occasionally found **Ramira’s** tone stiff and a bit self-righteous, and I don’t always agree with her. But I can understand that touchiness in light of what **Johanna** says above: often there is no one else really speaking up with her. It’s hard to make a reserved, calm case when you are passionate about something but being dismissed and ignored by the people whom you think are wrong. I myself would make every effort to employ a more approachable tone, but I make no claim that my way is the only way or even the best way. I’ve been frustrated before by people on this allegedly fact-based board ignoring factual citations and repeating whatever fears and prejudices they like (see any pit bull discussion I’ve participated in) and I applaud **Ramira** for remaining engaged at all. It must be difficult. Even though I at times disagree, even strongly, with her content and/or tone, I agree with **Johanna** that the board is richer for **Ramira** ’s unusual perspective and her willingness to share it. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/90 "2018-01-23T18:26:43Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > OP didn’t call her a troll. Just sayin’. I was referring obliquely to the Omnibus Trolls R Us thread, where OP makes plenty of troll callings and now splits hairs over semantics. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/91 "2018-01-23T18:47:58Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > What’s your point? It’s been mentioned several times in this thread. > > I agree with upstairs and some others that she can be caustic and way aggressive at times. That doesn’t invalidate her good points. Or it shouldn’t, but I guess some people have thinner skin than others. > > And again, troll she is not. Troll is a noun. Trolling is a verb. The former is not required for the latter. She was warned for being a jerk, and that particular jerkish activity involved trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/92 "2018-01-23T18:51:49Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Maybe you need to wipe the red off your eyes and actually read what people write? Gosh, given that she DID in fact receive a mod warning for her activities in that thread, I don’t think I’m the one who needs to back off and read what others are saying. :rolleyes: She hasn’t been pleasant to me and that, combined with her general assholishness towards others as well, is what caused me to put her on ignore. Others may find more value there and that’s great for them. But I get to make the choices for my life and if you want to be a pretty little snowflake about it, then just run along and cry on someone else’s shoulder. If, over time, she gets less of a reputation for this sort of crap, I’ll be happy to remove her from my list. I’ve added and taken off other people over time as they’ve mellowed. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/93 "2018-01-23T19:05:40Z")
I don’t have her on my ignore list, but I tend to skip past her posts without reading them. I find very little of value in them. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/94 "2018-01-23T19:35:57Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I mildly dislike the poster because she apparently posts a mild form of “Americans all have these wrong stereotypes about the ME!” without seeing the irony of this. This is what bothers me about her posts. She seems to think she is the spokeperson for the Middle East/North African nations, despite the fact that these are diverse societies and peoples. It would be different if she said, I’m from Algeria/Tunisia/whereever, and that does not match my experience. In fact, I don’t think she says which country she lives in. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/95 "2018-01-23T20:08:37Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Gosh, given that she DID in fact receive a mod warning for her activities in that thread, I don’t think I’m the one who needs to back off and read what others are saying. :rolleyes: > > She hasn’t been pleasant to me and that, combined with her general assholishness towards others as well, is what caused me to put her on ignore. Others may find more value there and that’s great for them. But I get to make the choices for my life and if you want to be a pretty little snowflake about it, then just run along and cry on someone else’s shoulder. > > If, over time, she gets less of a reputation for this sort of crap, I’ll be happy to remove her from my list. I’ve added and taken off other people over time as they’ve mellowed. I’m not the one with people on my ignore list, so I don’t think I’m the snowflake. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Troll is a noun. Trolling is a verb. The former is not required for the latter. > She was warned for being a jerk, and that particular jerkish activity involved trolling. Whatever, fuck grammar. 😛 As for her being warned for being a jerk, I don’t agree with the warning, but that’s the anarchist in me talking. I’ve already agreed she can be over-the-top aggressive. But I place more weight on content than tone. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/96 "2018-01-23T20:12:37Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Whatever, fuck grammar. 😛 > > … That, I agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/97 "2018-01-23T20:23:16Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > I’m not the one with people on my ignore list, so I don’t think I’m the snowflake. No, you’re the guy whining like a little bitch about someone else’s list, which has nothing to do with you. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/98 "2018-01-23T20:35:40Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > No, you’re the guy whining like a little bitch about someone else’s list, which has nothing to do with you. Having a list, at least for a grown man, by definition makes you a bitch. FTR its a little different for women because men can by creepy and stalkerish. Put on your big boy pants and let go of mommy’s hand and don’t pout over the opinions of others. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/99 "2018-01-23T20:46:16Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > No, you’re the guy whining like a little bitch about someone else’s list, which has nothing to do with you. Haha ok. I observe bullshit and I say so. If that makes me a little bitch, so be it. I’m not putting you on my ignore list, so I can see all the stupid shit you write and call you out on it. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231/100 "2018-01-23T21:05:54Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Having a list, at least for a grown man, by definition makes you a bitch. FTR its a little different for women because men can by creepy and stalkerish. Put on your big boy pants and let go of mommy’s hand and don’t pout over the opinions of others. Amen to that. On the upside we never have to worry about someone who maintains an ignore list becoming a mod here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-little-nest-of-vipers-ramira/807231.md?page=6)