# Our New Iraq Counterinsurgency Strategy: Surge the Bombings! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2007, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151 "2007-06-15T19:01:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/1 "2007-06-15T19:01:24Z")
[**Our** bombings, that is. From the air. By the USAF.](http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/06/africa/ME-GEN-Iraq-Airstrikes.php) > [@](#): > > In the first 4 1/2 months of 2007, American aircraft dropped 237 bombs and missiles in support of ground forces in Iraq, already surpassing the 229 expended in all of 2006, according to U.S. Air Force figures obtained by The Associated Press. > > “Air operations over Iraq have ratcheted up significantly, in the number of sorties, the number of hours (in the air),” said Col. Joe Guastella, Air Force operations chief for the region. “It has a lot to do with increased pressure on the enemy by MNC-I” — the Multinational Corps-Iraq — “combined with more carriers.” I guess that if there wasn’t going to be a war with Iran to keep the flyboys busy, they figured it wouldn’t hurt to bomb the fuck out of Iraq. And it’s effective, in a twisted sort of way: > [@](#): > > At the same time, the number of civilian Iraqi casualties from U.S. airstrikes appears to have risen sharply, according to Iraq Body Count, a London-based, anti-war research group that maintains a database compiling news media reports on Iraqi war deaths. > > The rate of such reported civilian deaths appeared to climb steadily through 2006, the group reports, averaging just a few a month in early 2006, hitting some 40 a month by year’s end, and averaging more than 50 a month so far this year. > > Those are maximum tolls based on news reports, and they count those killed by Army helicopter fire as well as by warplanes, Iraq Body Count’s John Sloboda said. The count is regarded as conservative, since it doesn’t include deaths missed by the international media. As [William Lind explains](http://www.antiwar.com/lind/?articleid=11130): > [@](#): > > Nothing could testify more powerfully to the failure of U.S. efforts on the ground in Iraq than a ramp-up in airstrikes. Calling in air is the last, desperate, and usually futile action of an army that is losing. If anyone still wonders whether the “surge” is working, the increase in air strikes offers a definitive answer: it isn’t. > > Worse, the growing number of air strikes shows that, despite what the Marines have accomplished in Anbar province and Gen. Petraeus’ best efforts, our high command remains as incapable as ever of grasping Fourth Generation war. To put it bluntly, there is no surer or faster way to lose in 4GW than by calling in airstrikes. It is a disaster on every level. Physically, it inevitably kills far more civilians than enemies, enraging the population against us and driving them into the arms of our opponents. Mentally, it tells the insurgents we are cowards who only dare fight them from 20,000 feet in the air. Morally, it turns us into Goliath, a monster every real man has to fight. So negative are the results of air strikes in this kind of war that there is only one possible good number of them: zero (unless we are employing the “Hama model,” which we are not). We’re even bombing [railroad stations](http://uk.news.yahoo.com/ap/20070604/img/pwl-iraq-airstrike-28544fd-c73720cea1f00.html) in Iraq. I guess that with the insurgents [taking out bridges](http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/06/the_bombed_brid.html), the USAF generals thought we were falling behind in the war on Iraq’s infrastructure. I don’t know if, in the chain of command for the Iraq war, the flyboys report to Petraeus, or whether they’re outside of his chain of command. If Petraeus is signing off on this sort of mission, then he has to know the game’s over. If he’s not, then he should be raising holy hell about this, but he’s not. Either way, you don’t defeat an insurgency by dropping bombs. It. Just. Doesn’t. Work. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/2 "2007-06-15T21:03:53Z")
I swear (frequently) that it’s getting more Orwellian by the moment. I heard Tony Snow telling the press corpse the other day that the increase in violence in Iraq was (paraphrased) ‘proof that the surge was working’. Does that mean if there’d been a decrease that the surge was failing? may (diety of your choice) help us all. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/3 "2007-06-15T21:25:33Z")
[QUOTE=wring] I swear (frequently) that it’s getting more Orwellian by the moment. I heard Tony Snow telling the press corpse the other day that the increase in violence in Iraq was (paraphrased) ‘proof that the surge was working’. [/quote] Kinda like 9/11 proved that the way we’d been conducting the War on Terror up to that point was working too. (Guess GWB screwed the pooch by abandoning that proven-successful strategy.) > [@](#): > > Does that mean if there’d been a decrease that the surge was failing? Remember how it sometimes seems like “9/11” is the conservatives’ answer, no matter what’s the question? Same deal here. The implication is that their strategy’s working. The implication of _what,_ you ask? Of whatever happens. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/4 "2007-06-15T21:30:46Z")
I can barely feel it anymore. Should be hot fury, terror and death from the sky, visited on the innocent for their proximity to the guilty. Burned out. All that remains is dreary regret, like day old oatmeal. Even when war doesn’'t kill, it deadens. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/5 "2007-06-15T22:31:40Z")
[QUOTE=wring] I heard Tony Snow telling the press corpse the other day that the increase in violence in Iraq was (paraphrased) ‘proof that the surge was working’. [/QUOTE] They’ve been saying this for at least two years. Remember, kids, the worse it gets, the better it really is. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/6 "2007-06-15T22:42:22Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] I can barely feel it anymore. Should be hot fury, terror and death from the sky, visited on the innocent for their proximity to the guilty. Burned out. All that remains is dreary regret, like day old oatmeal. Even when war doesn’'t kill, it deadens. [/QUOTE] Know what you mean. I scare myself at times at how coarse I’ve become to all the daily insanity and senless butchering. Just not me. Or is it? Can men really become immune to slaughter? Or am I becoming Colonel Kurtz in some ways? Fuck. Frustration is really setting in. Along with a heart of darkness. Sux. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/7 "2007-06-15T22:55:09Z")
Personally, I think [the decision to arm the Sunni insurgents](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1918958.ece) to fight Al Quaida is an even worse idea than bombing the infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/8 "2007-06-15T22:57:55Z")
What?! To say that airstrikes are cowardly or signs of losing is to prove to be an imbecile. Why in the world would we want to fight the insurgency with one hand tied behind our back? That’s just stupid. I suppose the words “positive identification” mean nothing to you. Who tells you people that we just drop bombs out of the sky for no reason? I’ve personally seen numerous airstrikes called off because a camera lost sight of a car or insurgent for a split second. Everyone was sure that those guys were the ones just shooting at us, but if we take our “eyes” off them for a second, we can’t be _sure_ sure. You all really need to get this idea of willy-nilly bomb dropping out of your heads and start thinking the same way we do air strikes- accurately. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/9 "2007-06-15T23:05:03Z")
[QUOTE=IntelSoldier] What?! To say that airstrikes are cowardly or signs of losing is to prove to be an imbecile. Why in the world would we want to fight the insurgency with one hand tied behind our back? That’s just stupid. I suppose the words “positive identification” mean nothing to you. Who tells you people that we just drop bombs out of the sky for no reason? I’ve personally seen numerous airstrikes called off because a camera lost sight of a car or insurgent for a split second. Everyone was sure that those guys were the ones just shooting at us, but if we take our “eyes” off them for a second, we can’t be _sure_ sure. You all really need to get this idea of willy-nilly bomb dropping out of your heads and start thinking the same way we do air strikes- accurately. [/QUOTE] Kindly fuck-off, **IntelSoldier**. Go sell your bullshit to all the living relatives of the thousands upon thousands innocent people you’ve murdered from up up high. Yeah, yeah, I realize you could do much worse. Hardly an endorsement, is it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/10 "2007-06-15T23:05:17Z")
[QUOTE=IntelSoldier] What?! To say that airstrikes are cowardly or signs of losing is to prove to be an imbecile. Why in the world would we want to fight the insurgency with one hand tied behind our back? That’s just stupid. I suppose the words “positive identification” mean nothing to you. Who tells you people that we just drop bombs out of the sky for no reason? [/QUOTE] But it was in an editorial on [antiwar.com](http://antiwar.com), so it must be true! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/11 "2007-06-15T23:08:58Z")
Pretty cheap shot, **John**. I’ll do you the honor of assuming you’re already embarassed about a lapse in judgement. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/12 "2007-06-15T23:10:53Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] But it was in an editorial on [antiwar.com](http://antiwar.com), so it must be true! [/QUOTE] As opposed to the BS you get fed on a regular basis by your tightly censored and controlled MSM? (_in bed_, fuckin’ “journalists?” :rolleyes: ) Please, John, surely you are smarter than that. Or so I thought… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/13 "2007-06-15T23:17:33Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] As opposed to the BS you get fed on a regular basis by your tightly censored and controlled MSM… [/QUOTE] Tightly censored? Yeah, well… let’s assume that’s true. Still doesn’t change the fact that the OP’s source is an agenda driven site. Frankly I have no idea whether the guy is a good military analyst\* or not. But then neither do you. It’s anti-war, though, so you accept it without question. Is that what passes as “smart” around here? \*I looked him up on wikipedia, and it looks like a mixed bag. He has his admirers and his critics. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/14 "2007-06-15T23:19:00Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Kindly fuck-off, **IntelSoldier**. Go sell your bullshit to all the living relatives of the thousands upon thousands innocent people you’ve murdered from up up high. Yeah, yeah, I realize you could do much worse. Hardly an endorsement, is it? [/QUOTE] What do you think you’re accomplishing here, apart from feeding your own sense of self-righteousness and making people think you’re an asshole? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/15 "2007-06-15T23:21:07Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Pretty cheap shot, **John**. I’ll do you the honor of assuming you’re already embarassed about a lapse in judgement. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I’m already blushing. Oh wait, it’s Friday and that’s the booze… Well, the successful military intervention that we’re often reminded of is the one waged by Clinton against Serbia which was, what, 100% air strikes? Was that a cowardly last resort or just smart military strategy. I lean towards the latter. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/16 "2007-06-15T23:32:06Z")
(First off, to thank **IntelSoldier** for his service. That is due.) This “accuracy” of which you speak? You are quite confident of this? I was always under the impression that shrapnel is rather non-specific, unlike a sniper’s bullet, it lacks the personal touch. But you are here to reassure us that innocent civilians are secure from such? Because we are so smart, and careful, and specific? I find that a bit hard to swallow. Perhaps you could be more convincing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/17 "2007-06-15T23:32:46Z")
One other thing. Care to explain what the “lapse in judgement” was? The linked article is an editorial on the website “[antiwar.com](http://antiwar.com)”. Nothing wrong with that, per se, but I need more than someone on that website to tell me something before I believe it’s true. Don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/18 "2007-06-15T23:42:28Z")
1-The International Herald Tribune is hardly what one would call an “anti.war” site, but rather a well respected paper – as is their source, AP. Seriously, is that the best you can muster? Weak doesn’t even begin to describe it. “Full of shit” does. 2-Airforce, by its own inherent indiscriminate nature, beyond beginning hostilities, does little else than kill by its very aforementioned nature and raise the ire of the survivors. Smart bombs my ass. Carnage is more like it. Stop playing Nintendo. [3](http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/06/africa/ME-GEN-Iraq-Airstrikes.php)- > [@](#): > > The rate of such reported civilian deaths appeared to climb steadily through 2006, the group reports, averaging just a few a month in early 2006, hitting some 40 a month by year’s end, and averaging more than 50 a month so far this year. > > Those are maximum tolls based on news reports, and they count those killed by Army helicopter fire as well as by warplanes, Iraq Body Count’s John Sloboda said. The count is regarded as conservative, since it doesn’t include deaths missed by the international media. > > **The U.S. military itself says it doesn’t track civilian casualties.** - my bolding. How fuckin’ convenient. Seriously, **John** , shit or get off the godamn fence. You’ve become really tiresome. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/19 "2007-06-15T23:44:38Z")
First offered link is to the _International Herald Tribune_, source to the Associated Press. Have you any scorn to offer those sources? \*Yahoo News \* tainted, in your estimation? Anyone with the reading comprehension available to a bowl of mashed potatoes can grasp the tone of your slur, that we are so simple minded and naive, so easily led in hive-mind mode, that we willingly swallow any load of horseshit so long as its from a PC source. Its crap, you _know_ its crap, and you said it anyway. Either a lapse in judgement, or petty and nasty. And, as you know, I am by nature generous in my assessments. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151/20 "2007-06-15T23:46:15Z")
[QUOTE=Giraffe] What do you think you’re accomplishing here, apart from feeding your own sense of self-righteousness and making people think you’re an asshole? [/QUOTE] Telling it like it is. Ain’t pretty is it? But it’s true. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-new-iraq-counterinsurgency-strategy-surge-the-bombings/408151.md?page=2)