# Our opinion on the United Church of Christ's controvertial advertisement **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 27, 2004, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-opinion-on-the-united-church-of-christs-controvertial-advertisement/281750 "2004-12-27T06:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![JMS\_CCT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@JMS\_CCT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JMS_CCT)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-opinion-on-the-united-church-of-christs-controvertial-advertisement/281750/141 "2005-01-08T16:06:26Z")
> [@](#): > > **[QUOTE=eleanorigby]Hmm. How to reply, since this isn’t in the Pit. > First, I asked legitimate questions–and I did not patronize you. Yes, I can decide that Dispensationlism is NOT my cup of tea from your posts on the subject. I was looking for a working definition. There is no need to give the derivations of the word, and I am familiar with the actual words, “dispense” and “dispensation”. Praise God I am not one of your flock–I don’t take kindly to condescension. Thank you, Polycarp for the more shaded and complex meanings.** Please excuse the sarcasm. That was out of line. If I thought your questions were rehtorical, I wouldn’t bother to answer them. How would I know what you know by the post you put up? Moreover, I don’t know what other people reading these posts know. I never assume anyone knows anything other than what they have disclosed to me. [ > [@](#): > > B]This is an item of faith for you. Frankly, I have never heard either my nun friend or my pastors talk about this at all. Then why don’t you ask them about it? Isn’t at least one of their duties to answer questions concerning faith and doctrine? > [@](#): > > So, you may be in it, but mebbe that’s a matter of perspective. I don’t know. I am not a Bible scholar\*\*. Yeah, it is a matter of perspective. It’s a matter of how one approaches the Bible. I approach it, first, as the word of God. If I looked at it as merely another one of the many philosophical statements, I doubt that I would read it at all. Second, I look at from a dispensational perspective, i.e., I believe it must be "rightly divided,"in order to be properly understood (“the whole is the sum of it’s parts”) If I am a Christian, I’m commanded to study it–not just read it (2 Tim. 2:15). The Lord told the disciples, in John 8:31,32: "… **if ye continue in my word ye shall _know_ the truth, and the truth shall make you free."** 1 Timothy 2:3,4 says that **“God…will have all men to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth.”** If I don’t know it, then I certainly can’t comply with it. A lot of folks on this message board get put out with my constant referencing of the Bible. I find it interesting that the same aversion doesn’t seem to be there were authoritative sources are cited in debates about other issues. As far as I’m concernced, I have no authority to speak outside of it. > [@](#): > > . I also agree that God is merciful–but I also believe that God is loving, that God is love. I don’t think he gives a rat’s ass that anyone has spoken aloud their dedication or belief in Him. Witnessing or whatever is for the people and the groups to which they belong. It’s a man made requirement, in my book. I either misread your post or misunderstood it–I thought you stated that only those who had admitted that Christ is their Savior were going to “heaven”. “If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved; for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation…For the scripture saith: whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.” (Romans 10:9-11) What this says is: those who truly believe on Christ in their hearts, will not be ashamed to confess him with their mouth. That is the way we know each other as Christians–by our testimony. I > [@](#): > > believe that the faithless are also in a state of grace . Yes they are. In fact it says that, “God was in Christ, reconciling himself unto the world, not imputing their tresspasses unto them…”(2 Cor. 5:19). According to this, the whole world is presently under God’s grace. That doesn’t mean the whole world is saved. One verse later it says: “…by ye reconciled to God.” One is reconciled to God by following the perscription quoted above. > [@](#): > > And your “truth” is not my “truth” and we read the same Bible. If we’re reading the same Bible it is. Whether or not we are able to properly discern it is beside the point. If the Bible is not the absolute truth, concering where we came from, why we are here, and where we’re going when this is over, why would anyone bother to read it? I > [@](#): > > can’t quote chapter and verse, nor do I want to–to use the Bible as the ultimate source like a textbook makes no sense to me. Which version? Which translation? Which mis-translation? I use the King James exclusively (in case you didn’t notice). The original manuscripts are gone, but God said he would preserve his words to all generations forever (Ps. 12:7,8). I believe he preserved them, in English, in the KJV. I have made the comparisons with new translations, and found them wanting on key doctrinal issues like salvation and justification as well as watering down the diety of our Lord. > [@](#): > > there is too much in the Bible that is conflicting, contradictory and provocative. Just MHO . Again, if it’s properly divided, those contradictions fall away. > [@](#): > > You can come at me forever with NT this and OT that–I am not arguing the semantics in the Bible here–I am questioning the working principles used in worship and service to others by dispensationalists. The working principles used in the worship and service of most Christian denominations ultimately come from Scripture, to wit, see Vatican Counsel 2, the Catholic Catechism, Luther’s small Catechism, The Westminster Confession of Faith, etc. All of these eklesiastical statements concerning doctrine, faith and practice are heavly documented with Scripture. 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