# Our responsibility to the suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 2, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-responsibility-to-the-suffering/479631 "2009-01-02T20:40:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-responsibility-to-the-suffering/479631/21 "2009-01-03T23:08:57Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > This may be a naive or incorrect view, but it’s mine and I hope some of you understand it. I don’t understand why we don’t help every single person in our own country before trying to solve the problems of the rest of the world. Isn’t that like parents seeing their own children suffer and/or starve, but going over and feeding and clothing the neighbors? Super simplistic, I know. What (if anything) is wrong with my view? Instead of dividing ourselves into artificial labels (“American”, “Iraqi”, “Chinese”, etc) based off what particular geographical location we were born in, I dream of a day when we can all see ourselves as Citizens Of The World. Now it may be more _practical_ to help people nearby than to help people farther away, but I think that’s counterbalanced by the fact that the plight of people farther away is even more severe than even the worst off Americans. Few (if any) Americans are actually starving to death. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-responsibility-to-the-suffering/479631/22 "2009-01-04T00:49:13Z")
> [@Zygomide](#): > > Now before people get the wrong idea about me… I’m not some cold-hearted individual out for the slaughter of innocents. Also, there has been a lot of commentary on my Darwinian quotation, but I just threw that out there for you guys to think about; I don’t seriously think that morality should be derived from anything like that. The biggest problems I see with the aid system is that in order to eliminate hunger, disease, and all the usual blights, we would need to revamp their entire society, which would destroy their culture. It would also require global cooperation, unless we want vying factions trying to alter third-world countries to fit what they want. I dunno, maybe I’m just looking out for an easy way out of a tough situation. I guess it is easier to say “leave them to themselves” when I’m comfy here in my robe and slippers. I would never judge you, but you seem to have the fortitude to do what you think is best for all. But is it? I agree that a revamp of society would be in order, however, I don’t believe that it is their society that needs to be revamped. Leaving it up to those who are suffering will only lead to violence and hate. When you are hungry and the enemy of those you are surrounded by, what else is there? It is up to the those that are in power to decide for the good of all. Here in the US, we elect those who we believe will stand for what we believe in. Is it all about how little in taxes we pay or who we dislike? Everyone hates someone else it seems, never finding a common ground to unite everyone for the betterment of every human being. Our governments pit us one against another, using hate to fuel the judgement of those not like us. Vying factions do this all the time with promises of a better life, clean water, food etc, but they are usually just lies to make themselves rich and powerful. Is the democratic system of government the answer? I don’t believe it is, as we have people starving in our own streets and lies are the soup d’ joure, just like everywhere else in the world. I wish I had the answer, but I am not anyone who calls the shots. I do believe that until the world unites, we will war and hate until we are no more. I don’t quite understand how those who are learned can not see past it, even for the good of all. I even never been well off, but I have been comfortable. In hindsight,too comfortable I suppose. As far as I can tell, it all starts with one person. One man,one woman, who will think of another first, before themselves. I’ll do my best to do my part. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-responsibility-to-the-suffering/479631/23 "2009-01-04T01:40:23Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > At least you’re consistant. I’d say a great many people would feel obligated to aid a child drowning in a mud puddle a few feet in front of them, but wouldn’t feel obligated to donate money to save a child in Africa. But what’s the difference morally? It’s quite possible to save a child in africa by donating a few bucks to charity. Many children over there die for lack of a few dollars worth of antibiotics. > > One influential modern philosopher argues the [opposite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demandingness_Objection) of what you’re saying. I’m not so sure i’m that much in disagreement with Singer, if at all. I don’t deny that there’s certainly a moral decision involved, I just don’t believe that we are required or obligated to help simply because we exist. If we want to be moral people, then yes, I would argue that helping would be the correct course to take, but that’s then the result of a personal choice to take on the responsibility of living a moral life. And, in moral terms, i’d agree that it doesn’t matter where the recipient of the help is. > [@Jess Leigh](#): > > Perhaps we cannot save the world (I myself believe it is well within our capability to stop world hunger), but we can make it an awful lot better. Why should we? I have a had time believing most don’t feel it’s the right thing to do. Words like love, compassion, mercy, and gratitude that we are in a position to help come to mind. I also don’t think i’m in disagreement with you at all, Jesse. There are plenty of good reasons to help; that’s why I added the final sentence of my post. My argument is only that there is no obligation upon us simply because we (and suffering) exist such that we’re required to alleviate it. I don’t think there’s that kind of obligation at all. But just because I don’t believe we _have_ to doesn’t mean I think we shouldn’t. If anything, morally speaking, I would say help coming entirely from a desire to help as opposed to a mix of that and a sense of obligation is somewhat more moral. ---
**Author:** ![Zygomide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zygomide](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zygomide)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-responsibility-to-the-suffering/479631/24 "2009-01-04T01:41:59Z")
> [@Omegaman](#): > > I would never judge you, but you seem to have the fortitude to do what you think is best for all. But is it? I agree that a revamp of society would be in order, however, I don’t believe that it is their society that needs to be revamped. Leaving it up to those who are suffering will only lead to violence and hate. When you are hungry and the enemy of those you are surrounded by, what else is there? It is up to the those that are in power to decide for the good of all. Here in the US, we elect those who we believe will stand for what we believe in. Is it all about how little in taxes we pay or who we dislike? Everyone hates someone else it seems, never finding a common ground to unite everyone for the betterment of every human being. Our governments pit us one against another, using hate to fuel the judgement of those not like us. > > Vying factions do this all the time with promises of a better life, clean water, food etc, but they are usually just lies to make themselves rich and powerful. Is the democratic system of government the answer? I don’t believe it is, as we have people starving in our own streets and lies are the soup d’ joure, just like everywhere else in the world. > > I wish I had the answer, but I am not anyone who calls the shots. I do believe that until the world unites, we will war and hate until we are no more. I don’t quite understand how those who are learned can not see past it, even for the good of all. I even never been well off, but I have been comfortable. In hindsight,too comfortable I suppose. As far as I can tell, it all starts with one person. One man,one woman, who will think of another first, before themselves. > > I’ll do my best to do my part. Well, at least you caught on to my desire to do what is best for all, unlike some who seem to think that I have no compassion. And I say democracy because, while it may not be the most perfect solution, it is the one that I think is most likely to be globally accepted at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-responsibility-to-the-suffering/479631/25 "2009-01-04T01:43:05Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > So what if we are? When was it decided that my ethics are determined by other people’s fitness? > > As for them dying to prevent future suffering, if we _all_ die there would be no suffering whatsoever. Would that be a logical extension of your argument? If not, why not? If we’re responsible for other people’s suffering shouldn’t there be some level of responsibility on the part of those who suffer for their own future? There is a lot of wisdom in the concept of teaching people to fish. Giving food to someone is worse than giving money to an alcoholic because a poorly educated populace will increase in number and bread disease. The solution to ALL long-term hunger has to involve education in addition to basic human aid. Otherwise we are increasing the problem with the next generation. ---
**Author:** ![smurfslappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@smurfslappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smurfslappa)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-responsibility-to-the-suffering/479631/26 "2009-01-05T00:17:52Z")
“No act of kindness, however small, is ever wasted.” - Aesop ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-responsibility-to-the-suffering/479631/27 "2009-01-06T21:43:42Z")
> [@smurfslappa](#): > > “No act of kindness, however small, is ever wasted.” > > - Aesop That’s certainly a nice sentiment but you can kill people with kindness. And that would a waste. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-responsibility-to-the-suffering/479631/28 "2009-01-07T04:16:55Z")
Has anyone here ever read any Daniel Quinn? He makes a pretty good argument that giving food/aid to peoples only makes them reproduce faster which is resulting in a population explosion that is contributing to the human destruction of the planet. I don’t mean this in a Marie Antoinette way at all but I genuinely wonder . . . if Africa cannot sustain itself, why do we keep pouring food and “relief” into it? It could never be enough. It only means more people will live there who will require more food and relief from outside. It’s like trying to get a spaceship to the speed of light; the faster you go, the more fuel you need, until you eventually need an infinite amount of fuel and you’re still not at the speed of light. It seems like more “relief” = more suffering for more people, and will eventually come back to bite the relief providers in the ass. Please do not scold me like a child if you see some logical hole in this line of thinking that I’ve missed. I don’t claim to have it all worked out. I think everyone should be exploring new ways of looking at these problems though, because nothing that has been done in my lifetime seems to have made a damn bit of difference. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-responsibility-to-the-suffering/479631/29 "2009-01-07T21:31:40Z")
The problem, dear sirs, is not and has never been that there are too many people, but always that chaos, anarchy, inefficiency, bad government, corruption, war, tyranny, and and other human ailments render people incapable of supporting themselves. Food can be grown for everyone and wealth supplied - if we will it. Too many do not. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-responsibility-to-the-suffering/479631/30 "2009-01-10T15:58:12Z")
Africa has some of the most fertile land on Earth but year after year we send them food,money,educators and build them infrastructure,yet the countries that we send this aid to have not improved themselves one jot after all this time. Most if not all of their problems are self induced,its the fault of the colonial powers,the West,that particular local politician/political party,capitalism,socialism,that tribe,this tribe, anyone but themselves. What was Rhodesia is now Zimbabwe,just for one example but look at all the other countries in sub Saharan Africa. I have seen it all first hand,not on T.V,or from books or googled it. It makes me dispair. You cant help those who WONT help themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-responsibility-to-the-suffering/479631.md?page=1)